#136 Performing Arts Majors: Tips for Navigating Admissions with Mollie Reznick Transcript

THIS IS AN AUTOMATED TRANSCRIPT… PLEASE FORGIVE THE TYPOS & GRAMMAR! xo-Lisa.

Lisa Marker Robbins 00:43

In today’s episode, we’re exploring the world of theater and performing arts majors for college bound students. I’m excited to be joined by Molly Resnick of college wise, an independent education consultant who specializes in working with theater majors as well as other visual and performing arts students. And our conversation. Molly breaks down the different types of theater programs, including the vast difference between the BA bachelor of arts and BFA bachelor of fine arts tracks. She’ll give her professional opinion and a personal experience on which provides more real world skills for employment. Molly will also provide invaluable advice on when to start the college search the college application process, including how to prepare for BFA auditions, and the unique challenges of applying to competitive musical theater programs. If your teen is passionate about theater and performing arts, this episode is packed with essential insights to help you navigate whether to pursue this path as a major career or hobby. I’m Lisa Mark Robbins, and I want to welcome you to College and Career Clarity, a flourish coaching production. Let’s dive right in to a great conversation.

Lisa Marker Robbins 02:02

Molly Resnick, welcome.

Mollie Reznick 02:05

Thank you. It’s great to be here.

Lisa Marker Robbins 02:07

I’m excited to go through this topic of theater majors performing arts majors. Because honestly, as a college major and career coach, this is a hot topic for parents who their kids might want to go that direction, but they’re uncertain. And there are parents, as you said that you find sometimes parents want their kids to go that direction that the kids are looking for something else. But it’s a really confusing path because of the different types of majors. How early people need to start what they need to be able to do. And it’s a it’s a lot. It’s a lot of heavy lifting when it comes to the application process, right?

Mollie Reznick 02:53

Absolutely. So I think the biggest confusion that I see are not even confusion, just parents and students being uncertain. When they come to me and a student says that they want to major in theater is when I asked them, Oh, are you interested in a BA program, a Bachelor of Arts program, or a BFA program, Bachelor of Fine Arts program, oftentimes, they don’t even know what that means and what the distinction is. So I think it’d be helpful to start with like outlining those terms.

Lisa Marker Robbins 03:21

That’s because they’re probably just thinking, Well, no, just theater, right? Yeah, you’re a theater major. So you’re speaking from experience,

Mollie Reznick 03:29

and I was a be a theater major.

Lisa Marker Robbins 03:32

What’s the difference?

Mollie Reznick 03:34

The key differences are with a BA major. And this is going to be true across, you know, other disciplines, but I’ll speak specifically to theater. But with a BA program. It’s a liberal arts education. So it works just like any other major if you’re an art major, you know, an economics major history major 1/3 of your course load will be in your major approximately, and the other two thirds will be in the liberal arts. So this is a student who wants to do other intellectual exploration. I ended up myself becoming a philosophy minor just by accident. Students who want to have a more traditional college experience would go probably with the BA route. On the other side, you have the BFA program, which is the exact flip blocks you actually break it down. There are two different types of BFA programs. There’s a conservatory program which is like your Juilliard, where it’s literally that’s all that school is, or a conservatory style program, which will be housed within a college or university. So like a Syracuse, a Michigan, a Carnegie Mellon, within a BFA conservatory style program, around two thirds plus of your coursework is going to be in theater and your discipline, whatever it is, and only the other third is going to be whatever sort of university requirements sort of basic core education stuff. So when students come to me sort of unsure of which path to go, I asked them very much to consider like how they visualize their college experience like, do you want to have a traditional college experience where you’re going to class and hanging out with your friends and going to lunch and going to football games and joining clubs? That maybe the BA route might be a better fit for you? Or are you somebody who like you don’t want to take another math class ever again, you don’t want to do anything. But be in a studio for six plus hours a day, doing scene work like is that your dream, then maybe a conservatory or conservatory style program, the BFA program will be a better fit for you. Okay,

Lisa Marker Robbins 05:30

so I have a question. Yeah, we recently recorded I and I know it’s gonna be out before your episode comes out. We recently recorded an episode on liberal arts colleges versus universities. Sure. Okay. So this kind of plays into what you’re talking about a little bit. If, as you just kind of sized up the BA route, you said it’s going to be more of a liberal arts education.

Mollie Reznick 06:00

Right, in that you’re going to Yeah,

Lisa Marker Robbins 06:03

but it’s not only going to be found on the liberal arts camp,

Mollie Reznick 06:06

right? Yeah, I’m talking about liberal arts style, in that you’re going to have reading, writing, probably some math and science, you’re gonna have a broad foundation, which a lot of times is more appealing to parents, because there’s just a better chance that a student going through a BA program in music, theater, dance, whatever it is, will just have more marketable skills coming out, then somebody who is literally just doing theater all day long, right,

Lisa Marker Robbins 06:35

I made the so it’s interesting. I would guess that as an IEC, you specializing in theater, and performing arts, you’re getting you’re interacting with those families who, okay, either the parent or the child already is kind of convinced like this is the route that we want to go because they’re looking for you to support them in what kind of a program and do I have the right resume? And what is this application process? Yeah, we’re going to talk about because that’s crazy. I tend to get as a college major and career coach, families where the student might be like, I want to major and theater, right. And the parents like, I’m not paying for that i That’s a hobby. Yeah, I’m not paying for that. And I don’t necessarily, you know, I don’t have a dog in that fight. I’m just here to equip them to say like, Let’s build self awareness. Let’s build career awareness. Let’s find where the alignment is, and then figure out how to get you to the career right. But I hear for the parents that push back on that that guy, like, that’s a hobby, I’m not spending $100,000 or more on that. Fair enough argument. Their main argument is you what skills are you gonna have? What are you going to do if that falls through? And you it’s hard to? It’s a tough path career wise. Right. And so, I think you make a really good point. So for the parent, who’s like, Nope, I want skills. It sounds like you’re saying the BA is Yeah, right route.

Mollie Reznick 08:11

Well, speaking as a recovering Theatre major myself, um, you know, my mom made a deal with me That I will support you, I should say, my parents made a deal with me That I will support you through doing theater, but only in a BA program, we won’t support you doing a BFA program. So I said, Fine, did a BA in theater, but like I said, did all this other stuff. But as far as I mean, the marketable skills are just what you get with a liberal arts education. First and foremost, you can read, you can write, you can think critically, you can communicate. But as far as the skills that I feel like I gained, being a theater kid and a theater major, certainly being able to speak to people to speak to a room of people to communicate with poise, and articulation, and all of this kind of stuff. But also, I mean, there is some critical thinking involved with theater too. And just compassion and empathy when you’re picking a part or role and kind of trying to get in the head of somebody else who maybe you don’t have a lot in common with. There is I think, a lot to be said, for being a theater major. I wear it proudly.

Lisa Marker Robbins 09:15

Well, it makes me also think like if a student’s been involved in that, and then and theater as they’re going through high school, right, and they are choosing a completely different path. Or they’re usually options for theater as an extracurricular in college for non theater majors, because it sounds like the skills would be fantastic.

Mollie Reznick 09:38

Absolutely. And I have that right now, where I have a student who theater has been her passion for a long time. I think the parents not comfortable with her doing a theater major. But as we did the theaters as we did the college search, she made it clear it was really important that she’d be in a place where she would have access to to theatre, so you can approach it from multiple standpoints. There’s just the straight up extracurricular. Most campuses have some sort of student run theater that you can get involved with, especially if you’re looking at liberal arts colleges or universities that have kind of a strong arts bent, where there might be a lot of that going on. Another option is that there are a lot of places, especially places that how is ba programs that open their auditions to anybody. For instance, when I was a senior, and in a play in college, it was with a ton of non majors. And actually, I loved it because it was just like some different people, getting to see people who I knew as friends, but like performing it was just really fun and interesting. So with a student like that, that they’re like, Okay, I’ll major in business or something practical, and I use bunny courts with that. But I want to have access to theater is definitely finding a campus that has a strong theater program that allows non majors to audition. That’s

Lisa Marker Robbins 10:56

a really important question. I always am preaching my regular listeners. Now they hear me say, be a wise consumer, you’re spending a lot of money. And you need to ask the questions. Don’t the colleges are not in control of all of this, like you have so many things that you can influence and control. So be wise. So that’s a great question to ask, because some universities, they’re going to say, No, the you can only only it’s going to be the majors that are going to be able to participate.

Mollie Reznick 11:25

Yeah, especially if it’s a BFA program that’s going to be more calm. That’s, especially with this kids looking to do musical theater, that’s even more tricky, because there are so many, so fewer musical theater programs, but there are almost no musical theater like ba programs. So if you have a student who is looking to participate in musical theater, but not in a BFA setting, that might be a little bit more challenging. So what I would recommend there is to take a look, and you can see past seasons of colleges theater of apartments and see are they putting on musicals? Are they putting on multiple a year? What sorts of musicals how well budgeted are that usually you can see the production photos. So these are like there’s a little bit of sleuthing you can do in this. And I have a similar circumstance with I have a student, very strong musician goes to a very reputable arts high school, they do not want to major in theater, they absorbed in music, they do not want to go to a music conservatory but they want to participate in the orchestra. So they’ve been literally going on YouTube and watching the orchestra perform and listening to it and telling me Yeah, like, yeah, their orchestra is pretty good. Or like, Nah, they’re orchestra sucks, I wouldn’t go there. So like, that’s one of the priorities for them. In looking at it.

Lisa Marker Robbins 12:42

Yes, I had a past student who engineering major loved marching band, when he was in high school was a leader in his band, and he was making sure that he was going to a large research university. And not all marching bands are open to non music majors. Oh, they’re

Mollie Reznick 12:59

very competitive.

Lisa Marker Robbins 13:01

Yes, you really, I mean, people say I, a lot of high school bands, most high school bands are not competitive. And they’re highly competitive once you get out of high school. And so that was a major concern of that kids. You know, you’re talking a lot about Molly. Flu thing, things to do on this college bound journey. And it starts to make me think like, what advice like do these because there’s a lot of majors, we just had one on a professional pilot, right? Where I left that I knew that you needed to start a little bit on the early side for that major, there are certain majors that are early for I left that with Penny going like Holy smokes, everybody better getting gear, if they’re even thinking about that, is this another one of those majors because i i Starting to feel like maybe it is.

Mollie Reznick 13:53

So with a BA less. So with a BA program. Typically you don’t need to audition, you would apply, you know, via common app or whatever. And just list theater as your as your as your major. And they’re not really considering your talent, your background. You know, for me, I did have a theater resume. And so obviously, that’s going to be reflected in the Activities section, which we filled out by hand back in the stone age’s. Um, for a BFA person for a person who’s serious about that, yes, there is there is kind of a lot of groundwork that needs to be laid. First of all, you need to have a good deal of experience and talent. Ideally, you know, we talked a little before we hopped on about doing a real self reflection of like, can I pack this? So yes, you know, I have a couple of well, now they’re, I guess, rising juniors, but I started with them sophomore year, a couple of students who are interested in in musical theater route and so they do a lot of musical theater, you know, in their high school, but also they have, you know, vocal training coaches, things like this. They have, they’ve worked on audition. pieces and we can get a little bit into the audition process, which is, you know, pretty fast. But I’m in that kind of sophomore but more so junior year. I think one of the key components is visiting the schools, which I think in this case is almost even more important than with other majors and connecting with the faculty, they’re a to find out like, Is this actually a good fit, because not every theater program is the same, there’s going to be sort of different techniques that are taught different approaches, you can have a very, very different, you know, even within Tisch, they have studios that each studio has its own specific thing. So you want to make sure it’s a good fit, you want to meet some of the faculty, a so that you can kind of discern like, Is this somebody I want to work very closely and intensively with for four years, but be also said like, they know who you are, like, that’s helpful to make those connections with my music students, you need to do a test lesson with the trombone teacher, the violin teacher, the flute, teacher, whatever it is, you need to make sure you like that teacher, and that they respect your talent, because that is going to have a bearing. You know, when you go to audition a year later,

Lisa Marker Robbins 16:10

well, it’s you know, as student athletes look at it this way, too, right? Yeah, exactly. Are early they get to know the coaches. I mean, we need to think about this in the same way. It also makes me think like if a, if a football team has an opening for a quarterback, you know, your position, there has to be an opening for your position is that much the same with these BFA programs? Like do they really need another soprano or another whatever,

Mollie Reznick 16:38

to some degree, I think maybe more so with music, like if they’re looking to build an orchestra, like, oh, we do not have a French horn like something that’s bigger, a little bit more rare than like violin or clarinet. With theatre, maybe a little bit to a lesser degree, like that’s going to be just more straight talent based. But yes, knowing that you’re a good fit with the program with the faculty is really, really invaluable, especially when it comes around to the audition process. So if you want me to chat a bit about

Lisa Marker Robbins 17:07

I do I want to ask a question that, would you so if somebody even is considering remotely considering a BFA program, would you say by the start of junior year, they need to be clear that that’s their intended path so that they have the time to I mean, you’re saying all this, I’m like, that’s a lot of time you gotta get on a lot of different campuses. There’s a you got to create the space in junior year is super busy. Like, where do you feel like they have they better have decided that they are going to intentionally go after the BFA route. Ideally,

Mollie Reznick 17:41

early on in that kind of sophomore year, though, I would say that’s more key with musical theater. Like I said, there are way fewer,

Lisa Marker Robbins 17:52

not as much with like performing arts, but there are

Mollie Reznick 17:56

a lot of BFA Acting Program, so that’s going to be a little bit less. Like for instance, I have a student right now that he’s kind of decided he’s going to apply to a bunch of BFA acting programs and a bunch of BFA acting programs, like he kind of did when he came to me, you know, I don’t know a year ago, nine months ago, he didn’t really know what

Lisa Marker Robbins 18:15

he wanted. He’s a rising senior now.

Mollie Reznick 18:17

He’s a rising senior. Yeah. And so once he kind of saw what BFA programs had to offer, he became very BFA curious, his mom was hesitant, you know, so we’re kind of doing that compromise of some of each. And we’ll kind of see, well, that

Lisa Marker Robbins 18:33

brings us really to this, like, once they’re a rising senior, because this kid’s a great example, he kind of has a foot in two application worlds, right? Yes, one is going to be much more complicated than the other one. Yes. So let’s talk about you have a, so we’re recording this in July, this is going to go live in August. So whether you have a rising senior listener, or you have a rising sophomore, or a junior, yeah, talk about the timeline and all the extra work involved, because I know it’s a lot. Yeah,

Mollie Reznick 19:08

um, so you should be laying the groundwork ideally, in junior year, you should have a sense of what direction you’re going in, especially with musical theater. And that’s a whole extra thing. And I’ll touch on that a little bit. But I’ll just speak about theater more broadly. Because you want to make sure you have a theater resume that you are able to because most colleges are going to ask you kind of why do you want to do this that you’re able to kind of justify, you’re able to kind of show that there has been this passion, this experience of what really draws you to theatre. Ideally, you’re talented, but that I can’t really speak to. So I would recommend if you have somebody in your life so whether it’s a theatre director, a vocal coach, somebody who can kind of mentor you someone who’s familiar with the process. I think there is a growing cottage industry of like college audition coaches, and that could be something if it’s financially feasible to hire someone like that, who will help you determine songs, monologues, things like that that are going to be the best fit for you. And that just helped prepare you for that audition

Lisa Marker Robbins 20:08

day that I even go like, or even like, do you? Are you the caliber? Because how does a teenager know? Like, am I really the caliber that can get into that conservatory? And I it may be like a third party more neutral place?

Mollie Reznick 20:23

Yeah. Because I will say, with musical theater programs, in particular, they have an admission rate of maybe like 2%, like, it’s harder than Harvard average

Lisa Marker Robbins 20:35

anymore, that it’s like getting one parents to Harvard. Oh, aware of that,

Mollie Reznick 20:40

that? Well. So let me just dip into the process. So the first step is that you declare your interest in this to the colleges, they will then invite you, most colleges do a pre screening, you know, sort of protocol so that they don’t have to see 10,000 auditions. This is where a coach can also kind of help you to prepare for that free screen. So this is going to be virtual and asynchronous. You’re going to record this, you know, on your phone on your computer, but you want to treat it like any other audition, you want to dress preventively and smile and you know, come across great, and they’ll tell you kind of what they expect from you. So whether it’s two different monologues, you know, one funny one serious, two songs, 48 bars, there’ll be very specific about what they want from you. You do that pre screen with however many schools ask you for it, and then wait and find out whether you’re invited to audition. Even so that’s essentially like your callback if you get invited to audition. And even that that calls the heard quite a bit and that most students are not getting invited to audition. What? Musical Theater.

Lisa Marker Robbins 21:47

So timeline wise timeline, do those pre screens, when would you hear back if you’re going to be into addition. So

Mollie Reznick 21:55

that’s typically like winter, December, January of that senior year, usually, then the auditions are around that same time, January, February, kind of around the time leading up to when your regular decision, things, you know, decisions will come out. I want to also make very clear one point, especially if you’re a student who’s looking at conservatories within places like Carnegie Mellon, and why you Michigan, you need to academically be able to get into the school. Yes, talent is huge. But you need to actually be have the grades, the test scores, the extracurriculars, all of that to actually get into the school first. Now there is a possibility that you get into the school and not into the program that can happen. But you can’t get into the program and not get into the year not

Lisa Marker Robbins 22:41

been into the school. And yeah, oftentimes, I know this from my work as an IEC. You know, there’s certain majors for which you have to apply by an earlier date than the regular pool of applicants in this case, correct. Exactly,

Mollie Reznick 22:57

exactly. Yeah, you can’t wait until you know you can’t apply January one, because that’s when the audition process is happening. So these, these do tend to have pretty early deadline. So whether that’s October, November, much like an early decision and early action, if you’re invited for an audition, you do have the option to do it over zoom, I highly recommend you do not that you go in person, even if that means getting on a plane and I had a student this year for music programs who was getting on a plane to us from Texas get on a plane to ship I’m sorry, he was from North Carolina got on a plane to Texas, Chicago, New York, you know, visiting all of these conservatories, doing the audition in person, meeting with the faculty, you really want to you really want to do it in person. And then you wait. You have to be admitted into the school, like I said, but then, you know, the theater faculty, the music faculty, they are going to have some sway over is this student really talented? And then you would find out in the spring like much with everybody else. So

Lisa Marker Robbins 23:55

this is another one of those pathways. And the pilot ones just fresh in my mind, because we just Yeah, did it. But this is another one of those pathways where there are additional expenses, right? Yes, please. Yeah, when I just heard you say, you know, okay, in this post COVID world, we all feel like oh, zoom, so fantastic. And it’s our it makes our worlds bigger, and it’s so convenient. And there’s so many things that can be accomplished over zoom, but I just heard you say it’s really important, if at all possible, go in person for these auditions. And even if they allow zoom, and that’s going to be an additional expense, like do you have a ballpark because these families already, if they’re really serious, and they’re even possibly going to be able to even consider applying to BFA programs, conservatory programs. They’ve been pouring money into all these extracurriculars and coaches to have the right resume to be able to even make this possible. Any idea of why Is there $1 amount? Or I guess it really varies. Um, and I could

Mollie Reznick 25:03

not tell you because it depends where you live, you know, I have New York area students that like, you know, if they want to audition at Tisch, obviously, that’s going to be pretty easy that you just drive. If you’re living somewhere in the middle of the country and you want, you know, California schools and New York schools, then yeah, that you’re gonna have to lay some out for that.

Lisa Marker Robbins 25:22

Generation, right? Yeah, yeah. So I think that’s just

Mollie Reznick 25:25

as much a, you know, a benefit to you as well, that you’re getting a chance if you haven’t visited the school yet that you’re getting to see the school, getting to meet the faculty, ultimately, you know, one of my music students this year, you know, he was accepted to Eastman School of Music, one of the most illustrious music conservatories in the country, that’s University of Rochester. And he was really drawn towards it. But then once he went up there, I think he went up there again, and he had gone there to audition. But he went back to visit after he was admitted, and realized, ultimately, that it just wasn’t the best fit for him, and ultimately decided to go somewhere else after he revisited, you know, kind of his top three choices, and then ultimately made that decision. So it kind of took two routes of planning to travel in that case. Well,

Lisa Marker Robbins 26:07

I tell families all the time. Like if you start, like, with my own children, of course, I started early, because of course I do for a living. And so you know, we started college visits on the earlier side, not an overwhelming earlier side, not freshman year or anything. But, you know, my kids needed to do a second round to make final decisions, for sure. And so that’s normal. I want to normalize that for everybody. One question I have that just came to mind is we were talking about like visits and time and money on all that you had indicated, particularly for a BFA program, you know, getting to know the professor’s early and things like that. So if a family on a budget has to choose between, do we go to the in person audition? If by miraculously we get invited? Or do we go in they can’t afford to do both? Or do we do all the early Junior work to like meet professors and see the facilities and things like that? Like, which one should they prioritize over the other?

Mollie Reznick 27:13

I think that is sort of a value check, I would probably lean towards saying go to the audition, because they’ve already shown an interest in you. They already think you’re talented, that’s worth putting money towards if you’re serious about the school, I had, you know, a student who didn’t end up going to all of the additions that he was invited to, because he just he was like, You know what, I’m not that serious about that

Lisa Marker Robbins 27:34

school, kind of like kind of rank order where he got to kind of I definitely was we’re wrapping it up here. Are there any final thoughts, anything that you missed, or any tips that we like got? Or do you just want to tell them how to get in touch with you? Because it sounds like if I were a parent whose kid was heading down this Berkshire the BFA path, I think I would need someone like you in my corner. Yes.

Mollie Reznick 28:03

So you know, you can find college wise at college wise.com You can reach out to me directly Molly Resnick at Molly are at college wise.com. I will say at college wise, we also have somebody on staff who does all kinds of audition and portfolio consulting alongside us. So that could be something that you can add on to your package as well. I have studio art kids who use him. I have theater kids who use him. And it’s it seems to be really, really helpful for them.

Lisa Marker Robbins 28:33

So and Molly is m O l l i Oh, yeah,

Mollie Reznick 28:35

actually see ya. Oh, I it Yes, yes, absolutely.

Lisa Marker Robbins 28:39

Well, Molly, thank you. It’s been a pleasure. You know, I’m a huge fan of all the great things that you guys are doing at college wise, you’re not our first guest from there. No, not at all. But that’s because you guys serve such a wide array of students and you’ve got someone for every student, so we sure

Mollie Reznick 28:57

do. We sure do. Okay, thank you. This was a pleasure.

Lisa Marker Robbins 29:08

Thank you to Molly Resnick for sharing her expertise on theater and performing arts majors. As we wrap up, I encourage you to take a practical step forward. If you’ve listened this long, you’re probably interested in one of these paths. Now, go online and gather information to compare and contrast is specific b a major and a specific BFA Major. This will help your family understand the differences in determine which program best aligns with your team’s goals and interest. If today’s episode was helpful, please share it with a friend who might benefit from it. And don’t forget if you can please rate and review the podcast it will help us reach more families with valuable insights and support