#169 The Hidden Impact of College Major Selection on Admissions with Rick Clark Transcript

THIS IS AN AUTOMATED TRANSCRIPT… PLEASE FORGIVE THE TYPOS & GRAMMAR! xo-Lisa.

Lisa Marker Robbins  00:48

Are you confused about how your teens choice of major affects their college admission chances? Many colleges evaluate applicants against their intended major, even when they don’t directly admit to that program, this hidden process can dramatically impact your teen’s college options without you even knowing it. Today’s conversation pulls back the curtain on this critical but often misunderstood aspect of college admissions. I’m thrilled to welcome Rick Clark Georgia Tech’s Executive Director for Strategic student access and a true insider and the world of selective college admissions. For 15 years, Rick led Tech’s undergraduate admissions team, where he transformed their approach to student selection and enrollment. We’ll explore how colleges like Georgia Tech and others consider fit to major when reviewing applications, examining everything from your team’s course selection and extracurricular activities to how they express their interest in supplemental essays, Rick shares invaluable insights about when students should start exploring majors, how flexibility creates more opportunities, and why transparency and admissions benefits everyone. If you’re worried about your team selecting the wrong major or missing crucial, important opportunities that could strengthen their application, this episode will give you the guidance you need to navigate this complex process with confidence. I’m Lisa Marco Robbins, and I want to welcome you to College and Career Clarity, a flourish coaching production. Let’s dive right in to a great conversation. Well, Rick Clark, welcome to the show. You have been a dream guest of mine for a couple of reasons. One, I would vote you in all of America, for the 1000s of schools, that you are the most transparent person at the college level, in the admission side, that you just value transparency. And I’m a believer that families, kids, parents, students, need more transparency. And you and I both have a regular practice of encouraging families to have conversations so they can get in alignment. So

 

Rick Clark  03:07

welcome. Thanks so much. I’m glad to be here. I’m glad that it worked out, and I appreciate the compliment, and I’m going to take that one home to my wife and let her know

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  03:17

absolutely you should. Our families need to hear these That’s right. That’s right. So for our listeners who don’t know, and I can’t believe anybody would know, you and Brendon Menard have the truth about college admissions, it’s a book. I actually call it a handbook. I recommend it all the time. I’m like, Just take this. It’ll guide you through the whole process as a family, and you have a podcast, and you’re very transparent and all that. But one of the things that I’ve always been itching for you to be giving us a little bit more information about is this idea of how a student’s selection of major plays out in the admissions office. You know, I know at Georgia Tech, you guys say right there that you’re going to look for evidence in the application package with the holistic review right of the fit for the major that the student listed as their intended major, Georgia Tech. Everybody, for the record, you don’t, for most other than computer science, you don’t really admit directly to major. They just tell you your intended major.

 

Rick Clark  04:21

That’s right, we call this FTM. You know, everything in higher ed has to be acronymized, or however, you said, right? And so FTM. In fact, I’m really proud of the fact that we have some faculty who come in and review with us, and they even know this term now, FTM, they’re like, I’m not really see in the FGM here, but fit to major and, you know, speaking for Georgia Tech specifically, you’re right, like, that’s a huge lens through which we review applications. To give you a specific example of that, you know, you have a student who wants to study aerospace engineering, yeah. And their high school offers BC calculus and physics. C, well, we want to see you take BC calculus and physics. C, that’s gonna be a whole different conversation. If a student wants aerospace engineering goes to a school that doesn’t offer those classes, right? We’re not holding them responsible for something they couldn’t control. But you know, let’s say another student from that same high school with those offerings is looking to study public policy here, we’re going to be a lot less concerned that they have physics C as an example, because the major that they’re applying for is supposed to be sort of lined up with the choices of curriculum in high school and maybe some of the things they’ve done outside the classroom. So, yes, you know, for Georgia Tech, that’s, that’s sort of how we approach things. And then I think, broadly speaking, across the country, I want to believe that most you know, universities are pretty clear. Hey, take Clemson as an example, like you want to study nursing or business like Virginia Tech. I mean, those are going to be different criteria. And so there they are admitting, you know, to major in that regard, and that policy is usually pretty clear on their site. So obviously, doing your homework, talking to trusted adults around you to kind of steer you through that, and thinking about each individual school you’re applying to and how that might be considered along the way.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  06:23

Well, we did a study. It was at the beginning of 2024, and we looked at the 50 state flagship universities. And we didn’t just go to their website, we emailed them, we called admissions, we had conversations, because we were really curious. As a you know, somebody whose passion is Career Development and Advising for 16 to 25 year olds, I want kids to have the information to make the right decisions for them. And so in this study, looking at the 50 schools, we put them in three categories, either they admit directly in a major or they don’t, or they it was complicated, and it’s complicated. Category was quite large. There were only four of the 50 who I really like. When I looked at all the language and I talked to them, they were really like, we’re not going to really consider anything they do less of a holistic review. At those schools, it’s very easy to change majors. They’re less they tend to be they are less selective schools, to be fair. But the it’s complicated category, my home state of Ohio, you know, Ohio State, so our state flagship, well, some majors, yes, and they’re going to really dive in. And others. It’s pre major or, you know, and I think too you talked, you talked in your book about how many kids are not sure what they want to do and they’re going to go in undecided. And it’s a fair number to your point that should guide what the right college list is for them, right?

 

Rick Clark  07:58

Yeah, for sure. I mean, and something you just mentioned earlier, I think, is really important, and something that most applicants don’t think about when they’re looking at maybe schools and majors, and that is change of major policies, you know. And that really does sound a little like inside baseball and in the weeds and sort of something that’s way down the road, but I think it’s really important, and increasingly it’s important because, as you said earlier, most schools are we construct. I mean, I like to think about the fact that for a student, I really believe it is a college admission experience, because it varies between students, and there’s a lot of things that they’re not going to sort of know or be able to predict, and that’s more like an experience than a process. We, however, run processes, and we have constructed processes and policies in order to ultimately create something very specific. And so the Georgia Tech process is going to look different than the, you know, Berkeley process, etc. And so I think, to your point, that’s, that’s spot on this idea that, yeah, I mean, it makes sense. In fact, I told you before the show that I was just talking with some folks from Saudi Arabia, you know, and I get to do a little work with the State Department, you know, going abroad to embassies and stuff, and I’ve come to really appreciate, like us, higher education is just weird, like it’s different, it’s super diverse. And that is both a blessing. I’m not going to say it’s a curse. It’s both, you know, something that we should be really proud of and excited about, but it also can be maddening, exactly like what you just said, like in most other parts of the world, there’s no it’s complicated. It’s really clear. Now, you might not think it’s fair. You might love the way they do it, but at least it’s like, black and white, and we are always gray in America.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  09:54

We really are. So this idea of like, there are. Schools. Yes, you’re going to list your major. You’re applying directly to that major, but there’s, there’s a ton of schools that tell us what the intended major is. And like we said, that’s other than computer science. That’s the case at Georgia Tech. It’s what is your intended major, and you’re going to be able to make some changes depending on some criteria when you get here, but you’re still into your that intention still should have some evidence behind it. Yes, when you all you do a great job in your book, on the podcast with Brennan discussing what that holistic review process is. It’s not a black and white. Do you have this particular a CT score or whatever, but you walk through the different areas of holistic review. So can we talk about like, I think families go, well, where would I provide evidence that sounds so complicated, and I know it’s really not that complicated, but I think they need to hear from the college side, like, you know, where are you? Quote, investigating to see, find the evidence, to unearth it? Yeah,

 

Rick Clark  11:06

I would say probably three primary places. The first of those of course is course selection. You know, obviously all students, no matter where you live or where you go to high school, like there are some requirements, right? So you must take certain number of units and certain subjects, and that’s locked. But there also is some freedom, especially as you get up into those you know, junior, senior year in particular, depends some some earlier class. Classes have some flexibility, but generally junior and senior year and and so, you know, as a junior, a parent of a junior, I know people just hate to hear that junior year is so important, but it really is. It’s such a linchpin for our review. Our review being broadly all colleges in America, because it’s the last full year that we see, right? And so that course choice when you when you have met your course requirements, and now you get to kind of pick so some students as an example, maybe they’re doubling up on science. A student who took chemistry as a freshman or sophomore chooses to take AP chemistry as a senior. You know, those type of choices that you get to make. You know our job in college admission. I mean, you know the very first question we ask, and the way we even sort how we read this is for more selective schools, is, where do you go to school? And that is pretty much question number one. Where do you go to high school? Because we want to understand, what did you have access to? What did you choose to take? How did you do and how did you do along the way, and as our conversation is specifically relating, how did you do specifically in the courses that are lined up with what you’re saying you want to study? Right? And so curriculum choices, curriculum trends, curriculum performance aligned with the major is one place, second place is, of course, outside the classroom, right? So you know, and you’re gonna see this naturally. If you have a student who legitimately is interested in being an entrepreneur and going into business or marketing, like they’ve been taking their time to do these things a long way. They don’t have to really work that hard to create it on an application, if that’s their thing, like they’ve probably been doing that along the way. And so that could be clubs and organizations that could have been some of the things that they chose to volunteer or shadow or do an internship in, right? Obviously, people can think of all kinds of other examples. You want to go into medicine and you spend some time volunteering at the hospital, or you shouted at a doctor, or you were participating this particular club. I mean, again, it’s pretty logical, right? This makes sense. And the kind of kid who wants, generally speaking, there are, course, always exceptions to the rule, but the kind of student who wants to be an entrepreneur and into business and marketing, their choices there is going to look very naturally different than that student who has a health care interest down the road. And discretionary time is something we talk a lot about in admission. You know, as humans, we all have limited time, especially as a student, you have limited time. You gotta go to school and you gotta sleep and you have to eat. What are you choosing to do at that very precious time, and generally speaking, they have been making choices that do align, in facts with what they want to do, maybe not singularly, but there’s some you can see a pattern. You can see some natural interest. And then, of course, the last part would be lot probably not in the essay. I don’t think it’s there. Sometimes more

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  14:41

common. I think kids feel like it should. I see very forced essays where I know your guy’s heart behind that the personal statement is like, we just want to get to know you. And having done this work for 25 years, I see kids feeling like they have to show that they’re going to. Of solve cancer in the personal statement, and then, in my opinion, on this side of the desk, I feel like, No, you’re missing the mark. That is not what they want. I

 

Rick Clark  15:10

100% agree. I mean, you know, the essay is really more to your point about, you know, helping us to kind of, I mean, if you think about an application to that point, everything else is just boxes and lines. And you can have two students who, to that point, if you were sketching them in black and white, right, they would look very similar. They could have done a lot of the same things. Have generally the same type of grades have similar test scores, you know, ballpark. And if you’re just drawing and sketching out the caricature of a student, it’s really where the color comes in. Is in the essay, and I think that’s how students should look at it is, this is another chapter of my story, but it’s really a it’s a valuable chapter, because I get to really color in this black and white sketch that they’ve been working on. And I would agree it should never feel for staff to talk about the things like that you just referenced when it comes to major and thinking about like, what are colleges looking for, and how can you sort of put your best foot forward to demonstrate your legitimate interest in a major field that’s more so in the supplements. You know, that’s really where we find it. We’ve gotten very, very direct about this. I mean, our supplement, literally is, why do you want to study this at Georgia Tech? So it couldn’t be more clearly. It’s

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  16:38

very clear. I Yes, it is. Your wording of it has changed over the years. It has, and it could not be more direct. And you don’t want anything flowery, it’s just like, why?

 

Rick Clark  16:50

Yeah. I mean, you could bullet point that, right? And exactly at a place like Georgia Tech, we’re fine with bullets.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  16:57

You’re like, give me the bullets. Give me fewer words to read.

 

Rick Clark  17:00

Let’s get to it. Yes. So I would say that to answer your question, those are the three primary places that schools are looking to get a sound understanding of a student’s interest in a particular field or major. When

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  17:16

you’re talking with colleagues across the country, do you feel like that? Why this? Basically, I call that the why this major essay, do you feel like that is the most popular supplemental, second most popular is it sort of the same as, why our college or are they different?

 

Rick Clark  17:36

I think they’re different. I i It’s a good question. I would love to do your same study with to know maybe we will, yeah. I mean, it would be interesting. My, my sense is that still the most common is just simply, why us, yeah, and and, sure, why us can lean towards major. And of course, it might be in there a little bit, but I think the why this with us, right? Why this major at our place is is a great and important question, and it’s, of course, as you said, increasing in popularity for a good reason, because we, we when you know, when enrollment managers and deans of admission and their teams are creating classes like we talk about diversity, and that’s a really big word, you know, that is geographic diversity. That’s, you know, gender and ethnic diversity, and that’s absolutely academic diversity.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  18:39

I think that’s the one that’s lost on families.

 

Rick Clark  18:42

Yeah, agreed, agreed. And so explain

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  18:45

that a bit to the list. Well, I

 

Rick Clark  18:47

mean, you know, we have faculty members here intentionally in all of the majors that we offer. And you know, certainly Georgia Tech is not all things to all people. I mean, we are not comprehensive. We have 40 ish majors are kind of we started in 1885 we’ve been very slow to add majors. And the idea behind it is, does the world need it? And do we believe we can do it as well or better than everybody else? And if the answer to both of those is yes, we add it. So 1888 when the doors opened, it was mechanical engineering. It was the most needed profession in the country, highest paid profession in the country. And we added electricals, you know, in 1900 and sort of went from there, more recently. A good example of one we’ve created is building construction. You know, that’s a that’s a popular one, and one that, certainly in our state, is, it’s very needed. But the point there is simply to say, look, we have talented faculty members who are here for a very specific reason, because they are trying to create future problem solvers in these fields, and we need to supply them with that talent. So this is why, and you kind of referenced this earlier, like. So we made a change about a year ago now to to restrict computer science, because what had happened over time, because of the popularity of that major, is that of our 40 ish majors, 25% of our undergrads were in that one major. That’s just not healthy, that’s just not at least for us, that’s not what we’re trying to be as an institution. Everybody gets to figure that out for themselves. But for us, that’s not the vision, that’s not the mission. And so, yeah, we, we said, All right, if you want computer science, you apply directly to it, you’re admitted to it, and there’s no guarantee that if you get in for something else, you can get into that, whereas the rest of the curriculum, you know, remains open maybe, well,

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  20:45

I think that’s a trend that we’re saying. I mean, I just we were talking before we started hit record, you know, USC, taking business as a early decision directed mid early decision major. You know your buddy Andy Borst, when he was up at Illinois at ui UC computer science has been that way. And he was on the podcast before, and he said they were leaning towards and I don’t think it’s happened yet, but for business and psychology, okay, okay, because they had it was over prescribed like so these are just business decisions, and families don’t realize that. So, yeah, okay, I have some questions when you go back you did, I love how you broke out the three, and we may take you up and do that study on at least with the 50 state flagships. Well, because what we did, what we did when we did the 50 state flagships admission by major so you guys, before would have been a no, and now you’ve gone into like, it’s complicated. Yeah, right. And in reality, most of them are complicated. Because I even say it’s complicated if you say like, we’re we’re looking for evidence, right? Of your intended the true nos are just like, we’re not going to look for any evidence, anything’s open, it’s fine. There’s not, there’s not many of those. But then we gave families, we actually have it on a landing page. If they go to our website, forward slash majors, and they can get the email template that was like our first besides looking on the website, looking in the common app, the email that we sent to every school and just ask the question, because the reality is, not everybody’s going to apply to a state flagship, but we want to arm families with the wording. It can be intimidating. This is why I love what you and Brennan do, because you guys are pulling back the curtain and you’re being transparent. When schools aren’t transparent, it makes them feel less approachable to the average family. Sure. You know, we both know John durante pretty well, and he’s all about that, right? That’s what his whole podcast is, the college admissions process podcast. He does a fantastic job with that, but giving families like you’re you’re a consumer, be wise, like I bought a car a couple weeks ago. You better. My husband was tired of all the test drives and all the me. He’s like, Oh, my word. Make a decision already. That be a wise consumer. So let’s do our research and take our time. Yeah, now going back on this you, you and I both always say, freshman year, just be a freshman. Get used to the increased rigor. Get involved in your school. Have fun and your book with Brennan. You talk about, hey, 12 to 20 months before you’re submitting your application, which now is going to really take us into second half of sophomore year, right? Is that right? Am I saying kind of like, Would you guys like? So that was my question. Like, when you’re looking for the evidence, what time point are you pinging back to? It’s not freshman year,

 

Rick Clark  23:53

you know? I mean, I think this is one of those things that is a changing answer. You know, I can think of a number of colleges now who are starting to factor out the ninth grade. From a GPA standpoint, they’re no longer even calculating that. I think that is very about much about the boy problem that we sort of have, you know. And generally speaking, I can say this as a parent of both a boy and a girl. Boys sort of catch on a little later, you know. And so I think a lot of universities are realizing like, hey, if we don’t factor in, or don’t focus that much on a 14 year old and worry more about these latter kind of parts of the academic career, that’s going to change how we, you know, review and make decisions, and probably it’s going to change the composition of our of our class going forward, what I would say is that is also, to an extent, true for, you know, outside of the classroom, right? I mean, if you have a student who got there, got their feet set, you know, maybe did, like you said a couple things to plug into the community as a freshman, you. That sophomore year, like, okay, they’ve had a year to just, like, get set, get their feet both planted firmly. They’re part of the community. Now in high school, you don’t have to have it all figured out. But like, let’s dig in a little bit more. And in our book, we do talk about these three eyes, like, involvement, doing stuff right? Tell me, if I’m getting too technical in my life, you know, influence and impact, and when you think about influence and impact, like that normally, is not happening as a freshman, let’s be honest. Like, you know, it’s in those sort of sophomore, junior, senior year where, you know, we can see that, like the things that it’s nice always about, like holding positions or stuff, but like, you’re really the things you’re doing, like you’re there’s depth there. We’ve talked a little bit earlier about this concept of of depth and impact, and they’re starting to actually show a college this is an interest, but also, like, demonstrate, and this is a question that we often talk a lot about, is, will this student be missed right when they leave? Will they leave a hole in their in their school and their family, in their community? And that usually is, is really starting to be clear in that sophomore, junior, senior year. So I do kind of stand behind that idea that this idea of, like, photo bombing the yearbook and getting involved with everything as a freshman is and strategizing on how that’s going to look. I mean, so little emphasis on that, on that ninth grade year.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  26:31

Yeah, I love that. I think the timing is right. But then you’ve got, you do still have, even with sophomore families, while my kids resisting me, or they, they don’t want to get involved, or they, and it’s like there are very real deadline you mentioned earlier. Other parts of the world, you know, they funnel kids in from a very young age. And when people complain about the fact that they’ve got deadlines around selecting majors and these other things. I’m like, Are you kidding? We give so much more freedom in that? But the reality is, there are very real deadlines coming. Parents are somebody who just finished paying for college a year ago for my youngest. Congratulations. Thank you. I know I thought I was getting a pay raise, and then our daughters both get engaged,

 

Rick Clark  27:25

and not the way it always is. It is I like, there’s

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  27:28

no i There’s no additional money yet one of these days and so, but we, you know, there are very real deadlines, and you’re getting ready to make an investment. And so even as a parent, to ask for your teen to start to demonstrate that they’re serious about the investment that you’re getting ready to make. I think it’s important,

 

Rick Clark  27:49

sure, no question. I mean, you know, but I can’t tell you how many applications we read where it’s like, you see a student who saw freshman, sophomore year, they did something right? And then you can see that there was this other thing they did all four years, and this other thing they did just one year. And, you know, I don’t know, to me, I think, like, that’s where it’s good to, like, look through layers, like, involvement, impacts, influence. And the truth is that we’re not really bean counting the number of things you’ve done. Like, the bigger I mean, when you’re talking about a more selective place that has choice of many applicants, it’s not about, like, this many years checking the boxes, like, what did you really do and who are you going to be on our campus? So I think if I’m a parent of a freshman, which I do have, an eighth grader, actually, as she goes into her high school experience, like, I stand behind it, take a breath, encourage them to just be a good student and be a good community member. And that’s going to look different for different kids. But, like, not do this because it’s going to play out this way in the future. But do this because this is about, you know, exploring, contributing, like being a good community member. That’s gonna always be a value. I,

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  29:07

by the way, I’m gonna steal your you, you and I both do conversation cues for family alignment. I’m stealing one from you today. It’s gonna be, what hole will you leave? Yeah, in your school, like you’ve got to be able to answer that. But it also, you know, you said you’re talking about selective institutions. I’m thinking about a student that I worked with over the last couple years, and he was applying to, I’m not going to pick on the school, to a moderately selective university, to one of their more selective majors, in demand, major at that school. And I said, you know, academically, he was one that resisted taking AP classes, took his first AP and played it safe with the AP that he chose, because, as you and I know, not all APs are created equal. So he he did. That lesser demanding AP senior year. And I said, you know, if you don’t get in and I said, these were choices you made long ago, before I met you. It probably will come down to some of the rigor choices that you made sophomore and junior year and like but you’ve got great essays, and you’ve got, this is one of my career development kiddos, and you’ve got a great resume, because you curated. We call them curated experiences. So we even would throw into there, like, not just coursework at school, but if you expressed intellectual curiosity by taking something outside of school, like a Coursera course, even if it’s one of the for free ones, right? Job, shadows, internships, volunteerism, anything that was curated that you put into that middle category. I’m like, but you’re really good here. He ended up getting into this school that I kept holding my breath. I was like, oh, gosh, oh gosh. And I hear from him on a Friday afternoon, no teenager is going to contact you on a Friday afternoon unless there’s big news, right? And and he got in, and I know kids, other kids profiles that were also applying to that same major, same school. They had some of the rigor, but they were lacking the curated experiences that aligned with the fit for major? And this was a direct admit major. So I, I think that it, you know, I know that it matters as well. No

 

Rick Clark  31:29

question. I mean, just, you know, obviously the ability to do the work and the preparation is critical, and schools are reviewing that, but you know, aligning that again, with what have you done outside the classroom? And are those two things? Complimenting one another is invaluable.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  31:46

So you and I know we get people that push back on both of us about like, Oh, they’re not even as a sophomore or a junior, I just can’t get them to do it, or they haven’t done anything. Or there are also kids who think that, and this happens a lot with the kids that I’m working on the career piece with, so it is a career that could be a good fit. And I don’t believe in soul mates, not my husband knows. I don’t believe in those and I don’t believe in them for careers, I don’t think there’s one thing like you and I both could pick jobs that we would love and be good at if, if we, we both have been doing what we’ve been doing for a very long time, but we would be successful and happy doing something else. Agreed. So there are multiple options, and ultimately, you have to pick a major you have to pick a career path, and they start to get some experiences, and when they get up close and personal with some of them, they go, Oh, I learned something that’s a deal breaker. I think of one of my former students who did a it internship with Kroger. Kroger’s based here in Cincinnati, and he was like, No, I don’t want to do this. But he got exposed to the finance department through that project and but this was not until he was going into his senior year. So he didn’t have as many aligned activities. He had good activities, but he didn’t get clear, really, on the major piece until going into senior year. What? What would you say to parents or students who have concerns and like that kind of a scenario. Well,

 

Rick Clark  33:20

I’d say that’s awesome. I mean, you know, as you’re telling not a failure, first of all, that really resonates with me here at Georgia Tech, because, you know, we have the I don’t know if this is actually statistically still true. For a long time, we had the largest voluntary Co Op program in the country, maybe, or maybe not still the largest, but it’s a very robust, Big Co Op program, internships, etc. And we talk to students about this all the time. You know, you you’ve been told all your life you’re good at x, you’re good at Y. Your mom did this. You should go do this, whatever. So some kid goes over to Coca Cola right, which is literally right next door to our campus, and they think they’re going to do international marketing, and they get their internship or their Co Op and they hate it. Well, that’s great news. Like, that’s great news because you just figured out, you know, as a talented student, and frankly, just as a relatively, you know, like dynamic human, we have to close doors too. Yes, part of clarity is closing doors. Part of focus and motivation is closing doors. So what I would say to the family, let’s say that, or to that particular student, if I could rewind the clock, I would say this is great, because you know what? Yeah, all right, we talked through three different areas of what colleges look at, maybe or maybe not, the curriculum lines up. It sounds like maybe the outside the classroom stuff isn’t going to be as pointed as you thought it might be. But guess what? In your writing, you get to write something very real. In that supplement, you get to say, you know, the reason I’m applying for this major at this school is because I did this internship. I thought I was going to do this. And. Have already realized that you’re ahead of other students. Like, that’s a good thing. So I think, Gosh, I wish more. I hope that for my own son and daughter like, I hope they have that experience where they go do something they hate, where they’re like, perfect. I thought that was for me. And it’s not like I get to re I get to reorient here. Yeah, we have

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  35:19

to celebrate those because the kids, they’ll look at them as failures. A lot of time. I’m like, No, that’s a huge win, as long as there’s a lesson learned totally it’s not a failure. But I love so what I love about your response is, okay, and you guys talk about pointy students in your book. So again, if I haven’t convinced everybody to read it and get it at this point. Hopefully that’s another plug for it. But, you know, they’re not going to be pointy on that extracurricular activities piece, but they get, they have an opportunity to express it either, you know, in a supplemental essay, we always remember, there’s the Additional Information section, which a lot of our listeners, they aren’t to the point where they’ve started a common app account, which, by the way, people, you can start it anytime and go in there and look at what what they’re asking of your teens. But there is an opportunity. And by the way, that kid, he landed at Michigan, and Michigan’s a fantastic selective school, and he got into Ross directed men into business. So he was able to express it. But I wanted to hear from your vantage point, where you guys said at the admissions piece, like, where, how you handled that.

 

Rick Clark  36:30

Yeah, and, and, okay, so he’s not pointy in all of the things being singularly directional, but he is pointed in his writing, and that can be equally valuable, right? That’s,

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  36:46

yes, that’s an amazing way to put it. Okay, well, this has been great. Is there anything that you want to add when it’s, you know, the specific, like admissions, how you guys look at fit to major? Did I miss anything?

 

Rick Clark  36:59

You know, the only I’m working on a article, slash something right now called flexibility, is the future, and it’s sort of like talking a little bit about colleges. I really think that, you know, healthy colleges in the future, and future being like in the next decade, are the ones that are going to create lots of different entry points to their their university, not just all freshmen kind of thing. Similarly, for students, I think the more flexible you can be, the more sort of seeing College is a big word and saying. You know what? It doesn’t always mean this way like is isn’t is a great way to like approach things. In other words, this is something I want to study, or I want to study this at this particular place. Well, you know what? I might not get to do that as a fall freshman, but there’s, there’s a transfer option, there’s a second layer of review. There’s a way I can actually end up arriving at that, you know, if I can expand how I, you know, not only present myself, but like approach this whole experience. So I think that flexibility going forward. I mean, as you know, more and more schools are saying yes, if you start in the summer, yes, if you start in Europe, yes, if you do the virtual plan in Spain, you know. So I think this idea of, like, flexibility to arrive at goals is only, I mean choices and options, choices and options, like, that’s winning. And I think that the more kids can put themselves in a position where they have choices and options, you know, the better off they’re going to be.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  38:39

No, I think that’s a great point. Like, if you’re focused on, oh, it has to be Georgia Tech or Ohio State or Michigan. Shouldn’t put those two in the same sentence, really, all right, dangerous, yes. But if it’s it’s about the school, and they do have your major, there are usually different things that you can do to work on it. But if it’s about something else you would be just as happy, which you and I both know that most kids are going to find, with all these options, another place that they’re going to be very happy. So always, usually just go ahead and double down on where you can get in but flexibility of that just helps everybody in life. Flexible people, I think, are successful people. And you know, as I work on career development, it’s about really like, how are you going to be a good employee? How are you going to add value and flexibility will serve them all there too. No question. Brett Clark, this was fantastic. Thank you for making time. Thanks

 

Rick Clark  39:37

for having me. I enjoyed the conversation. Was great. Thank you.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  39:47

Thank you to Rick Clark from Georgia Tech, as we’ve seen today, understanding how colleges evaluate your teen based on their intended major can make a significant difference in their admission chances. If you found this information. Valuable. I put together something special just for you. I mentioned in our conversation that we’ve done comprehensive research on admissions by major at all 50 state flagship universities, and I want you to have access to these findings completely free. This will be helpful to you no matter where your student may want to attend college. Head over to flourish coaching co.com forward slash majors, and I’ll put that in the show notes, where you’ll get my detailed blueprint that reveals which universities require students to apply to specific majors, where it’s easy to change majors, and where your team’s options may be limited. You’ll also receive the exact email templates I use to gather this information so you can reach out to any college and get clear answers about their admissions process. Don’t let your team get caught in the confusion of major specific admissions. Visit flourish coaching co.com forward slash majors today to download these resources. Thank you for joining me on this episode of College and Career Clarity. If you found this helpful, please share it with other parents navigating the college journey or even the counselors at your teen school, and don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. I’m Lisa Marco Robbins, and I’ll see you next time you