#131 Exploring Liberal Arts Colleges: Benefits and Fit with Anne Ingersoll Transcript

THIS IS AN AUTOMATED TRANSCRIPT… PLEASE FORGIVE THE TYPOS & GRAMMAR! xo-Lisa.

Lisa Marker Robbins 00:39

In today’s episode, we’re exploring the world of liberal arts colleges, what they are their benefits and how to determine if they might be a good fit for your teen. I’m excited to be joined by Ann Ingersoll, an independent college counselor with extensive experience and helping families navigate the college admissions process in our conversation, and shares her insights into the unique opportunities that liberal arts colleges offer, from their well rounded curriculum to the chance for students to explore different intellectual curiosities. These colleges provide a distinctive educational experience, apart from larger research universities. We’ll also discuss common misconceptions about liberal arts colleges, and why most students shouldn’t overlook them in their college search. Whether your team is drawn to smaller discussion based classes or you’re just curious about the diverse opportunities available liberal arts colleges, this episode is packed with valuable information to help you make an informed decision on whether this might be a good option for your teen. I’m Lisa marker Robbins, and I want to welcome you to College and Career Clarity of flourish coaching production. Let’s dive right in to a great conversation.

Lisa Marker Robbins 01:57

And Ingersoll Welcome to the show. Thanks for joining me. Thanks, me. Absolutely what we were in a very full of opinions and curiosity conversation with a group of other independent Educational Consultants talking about liberal arts colleges. And as I watched, like, all the nuances and opinions I like, if we’re all all over the place, oh my gosh, my listeners certainly need more information on this topic. And you were so brilliant and there with the bots and expertise that you had. And I thought Okay, and let’s get you on the show. This has got to be good. So let’s start with my listeners might go, what is a liberal arts college like, in what are the different categories of colleges? Like why? Why do we need to hear about liberal arts colleges? So tell me, how would you like if you’re sitting down with a family that you work with? How do you define to them? What a liberal arts colleges?

Anne Ingersoll 03:03

Sure. Typically, I would say a liberal arts education, or colleges are smaller schools. A lot of them are in rural small communities, not all of them. But then there are also schools that offer a liberal arts focus that are larger, potentially public schools as well. So I think it just depends on the student or the family that I’m talking to, and what their frame of references so if they live in a city, I’ll use some examples of explaining, you know, again, a larger public school that may have a liberal arts focus, but primarily liberal arts colleges are smaller schools that give a range of classes that touch on a lot of different subjects. Not always, kind of the big popular majors in engineering business, there are some but for the most part, it is much more students are asked or required in some schools that they take classes in several different areas to give them a more well rounded education. I think there are pros and cons of both. So yeah, it’s

Lisa Marker Robbins 04:17

all about fit right finding that race fit right you know, I often adding on to what you’re saying I agree like you know, the word liberal comes from and I think that’s one of the nuances especially in an election year people are going like oh it conservative person like ah, what am I sending my kid off to a liberal university or you liberal college? That’s an has nothing to do with politics. You know, the word liberal originally was rooted in the word free. And so it I think, too, I add to the conversation, like the curriculum tends to be a bit more flexible. The curriculum I see like, I start to think about like kids who I see It had been very at home on such a campus. I think about kids who that they like to read a lot. They are very intellectually curious tends to find a home their kids who really want to take a little bit of everything, you know, it’s almost like a buffet, right? They’re samplings from a lot of different areas. But it and you’re right, like the vast majority of them are going to be smaller in size. You know, sometimes only hundreds of students, or maybe a few 1000 students. And most of them are not going to be in an urban, the vast majority will not be in an urban environment. You know, interestingly, I was looking up stats, actually unrelated to what we’re talking about today. And it’s interesting that there are far more evangelists probably don’t know this, because they know the big names of big universities, there are a lot more liberal arts colleges in the United States, then there are public research universities or even private research university. So the small schools far outnumber the big schools. But the majority of kids go to the big research universities, which is the other bucket of liberal arts in the universities. Why do you think that is? Like, do you find it when in your seat hard to get students to think about liberal arts colleges? And in why might that be, I think,

Anne Ingersoll 06:34

a couple of different reasons. Many liberal arts colleges, depending on where our students are a family is located. It’s geographic, so if they live in the state of Indiana, and there’s this fantastic school in Memphis, they’re like, Oh, I’ve never heard of that school, and must not be very good. Because they’ve never heard of it. But it’s simply because of the geographic area of where they’re located. So that’s one, I think, I just think it’s, it’s natural for us to hear a lot more about schools that are within a certain region of where we live. It’s just the way that marketing works, I think, yeah. But then also, I think the other part of that is, let’s just say the big 10 schools in Michigan, or Wisconsin, or Indiana, or Purdue, or those are schools that, again, people know because of the athletic program, or they know it because of engineering, or it’s just a well known institution for research or, you know, maybe a specific major. And those get national attention. Again, typically, because of sports. So people are really familiar with them, because they’ve heard of them, they’ve seen them on TV, that doesn’t always happen with liberal arts colleges. And some, but not many, typically, it’s during, you know, the March Madness, basketball. You know, they’re like, little little this is, I’ve never heard of the school before. And it just so happens that it’s a small, you know, liberal arts college in the middle of Pennsylvania, just as an example. So, so yeah, I think that there are a couple of reasons why, you know, families just don’t care at them, or, or don’t take the time to learn more. But you’re right, kind of going back to your original point, that there are so many liberal arts colleges in our country that it’s hard to know, every single one of them that I just don’t even think that families realize how many colleges that there are for them to choose from. Right?

Lisa Marker Robbins 08:43

You brought up something about size there that made me think of a previous episode that we had with an IEC who focuses on working with student athletes. And he said Another misconception is because you brought up March Madness, we’re recording at the beginning of May. So we just got out of March Madness, and we’re going to publish this over the summer. But he said, you know, people are going to be surprised they think D one always has to mean large university setting, right. And he sat across D one d two d three athletics, there are universities and colleges of all sizes. And so that’s a good point. Like occasionally you’ll get one of those smaller D one schools that break into sweet 16 or something. And now we’re just like, why? What is the school? In? So I agree with that. Yeah. So interesting.

Anne Ingersoll 09:40

What happens, you know, it’s interesting to see the application cycle that next year, typically application numbers go up for school that, you know, a year ago was a no name school and Oh, they’ve hit the, you know, the tournament in basketball and it’s the next year. Oh, it’s good to be a little bit more competitive. If so, so I think it’s interesting just to follow some of those cycles.

Lisa Marker Robbins 10:04

It’s interesting that you said that there. I don’t know what year this was, you might because of your background, would have been in probably early to mid 2000s. And I based my family, extended family, we were doing a bracketed Final Four back bracket. And I did it based on academic outcomes of student athletes. And so of course, everybody made fun of me, you’re such a geek, you’re such a college geek. Like, I don’t care, I don’t know how to choose a good bracket. And so I might as well have fun with it, you know, other people choose on uniform colors or school colors, whatever. And so I did it in that year, and had Butler University that nobody in my family had ever heard of, and this is the year and they ended up in the Final Four. And I won the bracket, which was a fantastic little lesson for my entire family. So that Butler got on the map. Yeah. Bulldogs right. Yes. Yeah. That you went there undergrad? Yes. Yeah. So that was like, You’re right. That was an experience that got it, I think to I feel like talking about athletics. Students have this picture of their mom in their mind. And it’s probably perpetuated not only by the press, but by movies of that quintessential college experience. And it often does include big athletics, Greek system, things like that. And so to me, that’s just one other reason like, oh, I need to have the rah rah university experience.

Anne Ingersoll 11:48

Yes, yeah. And there are some schools that have all of that, but that are still liberal arts colleges. So like Butler, for an example. Yeah, all of their athletics or division one except for football. But, again, liberal arts education. And in the city, I just slightly removed from the downtown area. But again, people don’t don’t realize that. So helping them understand, you know, they have Greek life, they have division one sports, they have smaller class sizes. So that also leads into what is your learning style? Can you learn in a seminar type setting with 200 other students, and you know, if you are an auditory learner, that’s fine, you can listen, take notes and go in and out and never speak to your professor. But if you’re a student, like myself, when I was back in school 30 years ago, that’s how I learned I needed conversation with my classmates with my professor, I needed to know that they knew who I was, if I had a question. So we talk at least I talk a lot with my students about their learning style. And if it fits a liberal arts college, I’ll say a typical liberal arts college education. And again, sometimes that means looking at a larger public school that does still have a liberal arts focus. So yep, so that that kind of entrance into the conversation for sure. When when working with students, it’s a great

Lisa Marker Robbins 13:24

point about learning style and thinking about like, what are the classes in high school? Where that teacher it was your style? Like, that would be a great conversation for a family to have, like, where did you thrive not just because you have a natural aptitude in that subject area, but the learning environment met you and then applying it to that I had a previous episode on on honors colleges, and that sometimes you can go to a large research university. And if you can get into the Honors College, that’s going to give you like, you know, let’s say that a student said, Okay, I love that type of learning. But I still want the larger university like, how do I balance that that could be a way to go into an honors college within a large university that’s going to kind of give you that smaller community, right? Yes, absolutely. Yeah. We’re living learning communities, I

Anne Ingersoll 14:21

think. Yes, yep. Yeah, either one person. Well, you know, another

Lisa Marker Robbins 14:25

hallmark of liberal arts colleges is most of them do not offer graduate degrees. Or if they do, they might have like one isolated master’s degree, but they’re really an undergraduate institution. And so what are the things when I you know, my focus my passion is on supporting families, helping their kid figure out what’s the end goal of college like, what’s that career? What’s the college major and career so I do my college major and career coaching. So this kind of plays into that, like majors play into this a liberal arts decision, as well as there are some nuances that come with not having master’s level or PhD level programs like, so what are some of the ways that you think about that piece of it?

Anne Ingersoll 15:12

Yeah, you know, if I have a student too, and I use business, I feel like business is a hot major right now. And then, if I have a student who has clearly demonstrated in high school, that business is likely their path, whether it be activities that they’ve done in school, or if they’ve done an internship, or maybe they’ve started their own business, and have run that for several years, if we’ve had a lot of conversation, and I’m like, you know, they’re, they’re probably really, you know, headed towards a business program of some kind. Oftentimes, we look at schools that do offer a business major. However, there are some, I think, some students will say, I want to start in business, but they don’t quite know what that entails or what that includes. So sometimes an economics major makes more sense, which is oftentimes offered in a liberal arts education. It again, kind of depends, there are a few that that do have a business program. But oftentimes they don’t. And many families and students won’t even consider a school if they don’t have a business degree. But what I tried to help them understand is all of the other opportunities that liberal arts colleges do provide that can lead to successful careers in business. So I use one of my gosh, former students from many years ago, he is one of and I still keep up with a lot of my students. He’s still one of my most successful students. And he studied psychology. Yeah, you know, when I went to Vanderbilt started, as pre med said, I had, you know, within the first semester, I was like, not doing biology. This is not for me, will be Innerbelt doesn’t have an undergraduate business program. Now, I don’t know. So you know, you know, I studied psychology. And he said, really, that major helped him understand people understand how to work with people understand the psychology behind why people make the decisions that they do. He went on to become a social entrepreneur, sold, his company did very well, you know, now he kind of operates a company out in Colorado, involving the environment. But gosh, it his story I share all the time, because I’m like, here’s a perfect example. You don’t have to study business, to find success in the business world. You know, he used it, he figured out, you know, how to make a psychology degree work for him. And he followed his interests and his passions and look where it landed him so that, again, I talk a lot about that with families and students to say, okay, that’s okay. If the school doesn’t have business, let’s talk about maybe something else that it does offer, that still may lend itself to again, and I don’t want to get too in the weeds are talking about right. And so I just use that as kind of an example. Because I hear that and I have that conversation a lot with families, because they get so zero focused on business. And, you know, I mentioned Denison Dennison. In Ohio, they have an entrepreneurship coach, they don’t have a business program. And we they have some other majors that are similar to business, but they have an entrepreneurship coach on staff. I’m like, That is fantastic. Yeah, you know, entrepreneurship is one of the fastest growing careers in the world. So I feel like that’s a good example of a liberal arts education, or liberal arts college. And what what they can do for for students, so anyway, again, don’t want now i are off track.

Lisa Marker Robbins 19:11

I appreciate that I, I have my undergraduate degree in history. And I went to a liberal arts college, I went to a private research university for my master’s degree, and I’m an entrepreneur, I’ve started four businesses in my lifetime. And so I appreciate that, you know, when we’re talking about majors and careers inside my launch Career Clarity course, I always say like, figure out the career that you might like and that you’re wired to do, and then figure out what the major or majors are that can lead to that career. You know, there are some like if you want to be a nurse, you have to get a nursing degree. If you want to be an architect, you have to get an engineer teacher. So does the major sound like the career a lot of times in business it does. that’d be an exception. But those programs are going to require a specific major, but like, if you work in public relations, you can get a communications degree, a psychology degree, HR, you know, whatever, like the world is open on that. And so doing that work to understand the major career connection, and if it’s a definite one, or if it’s just, there’s a lot of different pathways, I think, is very helpful. And if the answer is yes, there’s a lot of different pathways, then perhaps, if the liberal arts education that liberal arts college fits in the other areas, it could be a good fit. And I just, I want to say, like I just said, you know, like, typically a liberal arts college is not going to have an engineering school, they’re not going to have nursing, they’re not going to have they will a lot of times have education, that would be an exception. But checking that out, and knowing that there are exceptions out there that might not be in your backyard. So, you know, casting a wider net, it’s really about discerning that I think my youngest just graduated from a research university in business, but I don’t think it’s necessarily because she has a business degree. I think it’s about the internships and the successes that she had that landed her at a fortune 500 management training program. And so you can get those same internships and experiential learning at a liberal arts college as well. Absolutely.

Anne Ingersoll 21:32

Never personally agree.

Lisa Marker Robbins 21:33

So what would you say to a family who, okay, now, they’re, they’re listening to us, and they’re thinking, Oh, maybe we do need to take another look and not just think about the big universities that are in our backyard? What are some steps that you say, Okay, this is going to help you determine if this is a good fit for you or not.

Anne Ingersoll 21:58

So, to pinpoint a well, when they get to the point of visiting colleges, I always say, if they say, we’re going to, I don’t know, New York City, and we’re going to visit all these colleges. And let’s say they’re, they’re targeted, again, at those well known larger institutions. And I say, okay, just to be sure, let’s, you know, there are a couple of schools that I think, check some boxes for you, that our liberal arts colleges, I would love for you to take a tour while you’re there, while you’re traveling hours from home or, you know, whatever the case may be, it would be in my opinion, it would be a disservice not to see the school or the school, because you’re so close. And I think visiting colleges really is you, you almost have to do it to rule it out, like to see a liberal arts college to rule it out or to open your eyes to oh, I had no idea that they offered, you know, faculty mentors, or whatever the case may be internships in London, but many families and students don’t know that because they get too, too, I don’t want to say closed minded, too focused on on, you know, again, then larger institutions, because those are the schools that they’ve heard about. But if I know of a school that I feel like does check some of their boxes, I’d really highly encourage them just to at least visit and a couple that have different settings. So liberal arts colleges, there are some in urban areas, but many of them are in smaller communities too. And I think it’s beneficial to see both just to give them a an opportunity to actually understand what a liberal arts college provides. So I can talk until I’m blue in the face sometimes about a liberal arts college, but ultimately, until a student steps foot on their campus, it’s hard to understand exactly what that entails. If that makes sense.

Lisa Marker Robbins 24:12

It does. I mean, you make you bring a great point up is if you’re trapped, like I live in Cincinnati, Ohio, so yeah, I can send somebody within one hour 45 minutes of where I live, you can get on a campus of 1000 people, liberal arts, you can get on a campus of 5000 7000 Ohio State size, big 10 size. And we you know it’s a good sampling. A lot of kids will say like, oh, I want to go away. I don’t want to stay close to home. But just get whether you’re on vacation or whether you’re blessed like I am to live in a place that has a wide variety. I always say I would even if you don’t do a formal visit and get on campus at these schools, colleges and universities of various size ICE’s, and then like, if you go, Oh, I am a little bit more open to a smaller liberal arts college, you could start researching online. And if you’re doing virtual visits and whatever learning Lavina and I were talking about, we had a episode in March, and I’ll link to this one in the show notes, because it was about how do you make the final decision? I believe, like, while it’s okay to apply to someplace that you haven’t visited, you should never enroll if your feet have not been on that campus. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That would be the like, good advice. But you could figure out like, if somebody lived in Cincinnati and said, I want to leave, I want to get out of the Midwest. And people argue whether Cincinnati is really Midwest or not, it were divided on that. But they they said they wanted to go away, you could go figure out if if liberal arts colleges are feel like a fit for you. And then you can begin an online search, you know, farther away. So as we’re building, yeah, totally agree, as we’re bringing it into home plate, any other tips that you would want families to think about as they’re navigating, thinking about liberal arts colleges, as compared to universities?

Anne Ingersoll 26:11

You know, I feech. My approach is, don’t rule it out until you have more information about a liberal arts college. So if you can join a virtual information session that has a student panel, do it, because I think many times families and students are surprised at the opportunities that are available at these smaller institutions that may not be available at a larger school. So it’s hard to say that a liberal arts college is right for every one, because we know it’s not. But I think to rule it out without educating yourself first on exactly what it is that they may offer, I think, again, would be a disservice to the students in the family. So it’s always good to do a little research. And I live in a rural area. And I see the benefits of and opportunity, I should say opportunity. Their benefits and opportunities will say that of being in a smaller college community, there are a lot of connections that can be made. And oftentimes, those internships are much easier to find and aren’t quite as competitive. You know, you’re not competing with 300 other students for an internship that might really get to where you where you want to be ultimately. So there are a lot of really great opportunities at liberal arts colleges, we just have to take that next step to do a little bit more, you know, investigation, and hopefully set foot on the campus or two before you completely rule them out. So

Lisa Marker Robbins 27:54

as always, it takes courage, time and intention. This is not you’re getting people are getting ready to invest maybe six figures and educating their child. And so I just I preach till I’m blue in the face. Make the time do something every single week to start moving that needle on the college bound journey. So and thank you if people want to keep in touch or learn more about how you support families, where can they do so?

Anne Ingersoll 28:21

Probably the best way is to go to my website, college bound associates.com There’s a place there to contact me. And you can also reach me by email, and A and E at college bound associates.com. And

Lisa Marker Robbins 28:37

we’ll put all of that in the show notes. Thanks, Sanjay. Great. Thanks

Anne Ingersoll 28:40

so much.

Lisa Marker Robbins 28:47

Thank you to Anne Ingersoll for sharing her valuable insights on liberal arts colleges and how to determine if they’re a good fit for your team. I hope our discussion helped you gain a deeper understanding of the benefits these colleges offer and how they might align with your teens educational goals. And if you’re at all feeling like you aren’t yet confident in whether a liberal arts college or a university is the best fit for your team, we have something to support your family. Our college list building tutorial resource includes worksheets in guided conversations to help your family get clear on what type of college best fits your team. You can find it at flourish coaching co.com forward slash list and I’ll link it in the show notes. If today’s episode was helpful, please share it with a friend who might benefit from it. And don’t forget to rate review the podcast to help us reach more families with valuable insights in support. Thank you for listening to College and Career Clarity podcast, where we help your family move from overwhelmed, confused to motivated, clear and confident about your teens future. I’m Lisa marker Robbins and until next time, keep striving for clarity and calm offense in your teens college journey