#132 Computer Science and STEM Admissions Tips with Jyoti Jain Transcript

THIS IS AN AUTOMATED TRANSCRIPT… PLEASE FORGIVE THE TYPOS & GRAMMAR! xo-Lisa.

Lisa Marker Robbins  00:38

In today’s episode, we’re diving into strategies for students applying to the highly competitive major of computer science in discussing related STEM majors that actually might be a better fit for your team. I’m thrilled to be joined by Joe T. Jain, an independent educational consultant from California. She brings extensive experience in guiding teens through the stem admissions process. In our conversation, she shares valuable insights on how students can explore their interests and strengths to find the right stem path. We’ll discuss the importance of demonstrating intellectual curiosity, problem solving skills and community impact in college applications. Joe tea will also offer practical advice on how to stand out in the competitive admissions process for computer science and related majors. Whether your teen is passionate about math, science, engineering, or technology. This episode is packed with actionable strategies to help them navigate their college journey and achieve their goals. I’m Lisa Mark Robbins, and I want to welcome you to College and Career Clarity, a flourish coaching production. Let’s dive right in to a great conversation. Joe T Hello and welcome

 

Jyoti Jain  02:00

So I’m so excited I

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  02:03

am to this is so much fun. So we should tell our listeners that we originally met at an industry conference for independent Educational Consultants. And I was just in your audience listening to you drop all of these gold nuggets of truth. And I thought my listeners have to hear this. So I invited you on the podcast when we were finished.

 

Jyoti Jain  02:31

That’s so sweet of you to say that I’m excited to share with your listeners and provide them with resources about our topic.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  02:41

It’s so great. So okay, so we’re we’re really like the starts out because computer science undeniably is the most popular and in demand major, which means there’s a lot of capacity issues with it at the colleges making it more and more competitive, even at like colleges that aren’t overall that competitive. This major, I’m going back to you and I were talking about the episode that I had with Andy Borst. And I forget what number it was, but it was in February of 2023. When he said like his university at the time he was at University of Illinois, Urbana Champaign University was admitting overall, around 50% of students. But for computer science, it was only 6%. Yep.

 

Jyoti Jain  03:27

Yeah. It’s absolutely the most highly selective major. There are a lot of students applying and very few spots.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  03:38

So it makes it I think, you know, as we think about this, you support a lot of students who are on this path. As a college major and career coach. I think what really, I don’t know what I loved about your presentation was it’s, it’s more complicated than just I want to apply to computer science, right? It is, you and I are both encouraging students to start early and dig deeper into self awareness and careers, so that they can make sure they’re making the right choices for them. Absolutely.

 

Jyoti Jain  04:13

Yeah, I would say that students, generally speaking, have no idea what computer science is all about. And, you know, many of them come to me, and they just like, Oh, I love math. And you know, that’s why I want to be an engineer, or I want to be a computer scientists. But they have absolutely no idea what that means. And actually, there’s been a yard study that has shown that this is the major computer science is the major that many, many students just drop out of. And I think that the reason behind that is that they do not understand what this major entails and they haven’t explored this may Joe,

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  05:00

you know, it’s, as you say that what I’m thinking about is, like, I agree with you, they don’t understand it. And they just, you know that we all hear like, oh, AI and computers and the importance of all of this, and there’s job security, and there’s a need. And so they they go into it without really making sure it aligns. And I, I would guess I didn’t read the Yale study, and maybe you can tell me, two things come to mind. One, they either get in there and they’re like, I don’t enjoy this, like, they didn’t even really know what they would be doing. And number two, these are not you just said engineering and computer science majors, like these are not easy fields. Like they probably there are some students who are smart, smart, smart kids, who are under estimating the difficulty of certain, you know, the level of math maybe and some of what they’re required to do. Would you agree with? Like, that’s where the, maybe there’s a disconnect? Yes,

 

Jyoti Jain  05:59

that’s absolutely what it is. Lisa? So, so

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  06:03

how do you start like, in I know, you have these four categories, and this is I’m really excited for families to hear this, I hope that if a parent, you know, a lot of our listeners are parents or people like you who are supporting teens, and I hope that if somebody’s listening to this, and they have a teen who thinks they want to go into computer science, that they will actually bring their student and to listen to this, you know, you will have them a prisoner in your car at some point driving someplace. So that would be a great time to turn on a podcast and listen to it. Because you you start with this, these four categories, which I’m gonna let you dive into, to help the student begin to think about how they’re wired and what really maybe resonates with them. So I’m gonna let you kind of teach on this for a minute before we talk about majors and getting into these majors. So that students can maybe which one of these do you see yourself as?

 

Jyoti Jain  07:03

Yeah, so basically, I would say understanding themselves is the key and understanding what makes them tick. So I would start by asking the students, you know, are you a math of five? Do you love math for math sake? Or are you interested in applying math to solve real world problems? Are you you know, then maybe math is, you know, being a mathematician is, you know, your gen or are you a discovery? Are you curious about the world around you? Do you ask questions like how and why frequently? Then maybe being a scientist is something that you should consider or you know, are you an innovator? Do you like to solve real world problems? Then maybe being an engineer is something that you should consider? Or are you an implementer? That you like, you know, working hands on? Do you want to focus on implementing the prototype that the engineers provide you, then maybe being an technologist is what appeals to you. So, I would say those are the four major like categories for the students to start at. And I love using the college wise stem Guide, which is a great starting point to dive deeper into considering you know, what the student is interested in and you know, what appeals to them. The other thing that I always talk with students is about the differences between the scientific method and the engineering design process, these are two very distinct things. So, most of the times you know, with the scientific method, a scientist takes a question that they want to answer about formulates and hypothesis, and then you know, tests and analyze it and comes to some conclusion. So, that is the scientific method, the engineering design process is very different. So, here the engineer takes, you know, a real world problem that they want to solve and researches solutions for that problem. Then they develop and design a prototype to solve that and then they test and evaluate that prototype. So these are very distinct processes. And learning about the differences sometimes helps the student understand whether they want to prefer being a scientist or an engineer.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  10:13

So, you know, one of the things that really resonated with me when I heard you describing how you walk students through this, is it created hope. I mean, I think when we start to hear like, oh, only 6%, or 4% of applicants are getting into a computer science major. And to me thinking about, you know, am I a math of file? And you know, your four categories, going back to your four categories? Am I a math a file? Am I a discoverer? Am I an innovator? Or am I an emblem, mentor, and then talking through what you just left us with on the, you know, scientific method in the engineering. It’s like, you might, your team might be thinking, I want to be a computer scientist, and then you see all these daunting admission stats. And what I just heard was a lot of hope. Because if they dig in, and they discover, you know, what, I like solving math problems. And maybe computer science is not the major for me, maybe I need to be a mathematics major. Which, by the way, be sure you know what you’re getting into, because I have also heard in the past that that’s the most common major that students drop out of as well. You know, that in computer science, you know, it’s not going to be as difficult to get into a mathematics major as it’s going to be to get into computer science. I love love, love that you brought up Engineering Technology, because I think most people don’t even know that that’s a field. I actually had a previous podcast. On this, it was episode number 27. So it’s an oldie but a goodie over 100 episodes ago. But I actually had the dean of an engineering college who talked about like, how our engineers and engineer technology is different. And, you know, might you might be a better fit for technologists. So I love how you start to approach this rebuilding self awareness because I think it creates a pathway of hope of, I don’t have to apply to see us. And maybe I’ll find that I should write, you know, I want to ask you like, for so the kid who should apply to they’ve done the work that you’re asking them to do, or they’re in my college major and career coaching course, where we actually can use the Burkman personality assessment to say yes, you look like somebody who would thrive in computer science, right? Or no, it’s actually more engineering, or engineering technology that might be a better fit. The kid who, who ultimately arrives that, yeah, computer science still is the path I thought it was. I’ve gone through this process of these four buckets and thinking about what I really like, who is the kid that should go ahead and apply to computer science? How are they answering those questions?

 

Jyoti Jain  13:12

Yeah, so basically, what I do is, you know, okay, the child is interested, the student is interested in computer science, I would say, you know, start by talking to them about industry technology trends. So looking at how the space is evolving is, you know, an absolutely must to start with, so that they learn about, you know, the industry, where things are headed, and how it’s evolving. The other thing I do is, I ask them, what kind of problems do you want to solve? So, when they, I like to use the USC Viterbi College of Engineering, as the prompt to get the creative juices flowing? So basically, with the prompt, is the talks about 14 Grand Challenges, which is the National Academy of Engineering has, you know, talked about these 14 grand challenges. And there are four distinct areas that the student can explore. And what kind of challenges do they want to look at? So it could be health related, security related, sustainability related, and joy of living? So having the students look at those 14 grand challenges, and then, you know, think about which challenge appeals to them. And then what kind of, you know, problems? Do they want to solve within those four distinct areas? I think that helps them kind of, you know, get started going in the right direction. I,

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  15:02

we had a previous guest on Dr. Liz Dr. Liz Crider. And she’s also from California, a little bit south of you. And she was on episode 127. If anybody wants to go back and listen to that, I think it’s a great one, even for students who aren’t stem focused. But she talks about using passion projects. And she also leans into what problems do you want to solve? And she uses passion projects to demonstrate that the student is curious that they’ll take risks that they have character. And those are all I think, you know, as you know, and I know, these are qualities that colleges are seeking, right?

 

Jyoti Jain  15:45

Absolutely. So the definitely for STEM fields, engineering fields, computer science, the admissions officers looking for that intellectual curiosity, those problem solving skills, I would say that, you know, a student needs to really start exploring early on and look for those interdisciplinary research projects are based on their interests. So that I think is, you know, something that they should really start exploring. And then the, it helps them explore their major, and look at different interrelated fields within computer science as well. Do

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  16:32

you have any examples? I know, when we were in Connecticut together, you had a case study, and whether it’s that student or other students, I think it can feel daunting to students, and even to their parents to say, like, will demonstrate intellectual curiosity and go do some research and work on solving a problem like that can feel really big are teenagers are? They’re busy, they’ve got heavy academic loads, they are in involved in extracurriculars? Do you have some practical examples of how to inspire and maybe spark some ideas?

 

Jyoti Jain  17:11

Yeah, absolutely. So with the computer science, they can look at how computer science can be used across different industries, like whether it is healthcare or finance, or, you know, social issues, environmental conservation, cybersecurity, I can go on and on. So basically, you know, for example, let’s take an example, a student is interested in using computer science to solve problems in healthcare. Now, what what might that look like? So they could look at disease diagnosis or drug discovery, let’s say another student is interested in using CS to solve problems and finance. So what might that look like? It could be fraud detection, algorithmic testing. So those are the kinds of things so exploring, you know, their interests and looking at those interdisciplinary projects that appeal to them. That could really make them also stand up Biden the admissions process as well.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  18:21

So you bring up standing out in the admissions process. And we know that this is super competitive. We were talking before we jumped on that I recently, I think it was episode 125. I’m saying that I think it was let me look real quick, that I actually did a solo episode, those are not my favorites to do because I would rather have conversations with people like you. But I talked about how admissions by major works. And in you were saying, Oh, I really liked that episode. And I’ve in it is episode 125. If somebody wants to go back and listen to it, because it educates people on how admission by major in demonstrating fit to major works. And I am what you know, and I know, but I think our listeners maybe might not know, is demonstrating that your teen fits with the major is even it’s more important in these highly selective majors that have some capacity issues with them. And so, while we’re sticking with this topic of STEM, CS, you know, engineering, mathematics, these types of fields. How can a student interested in computer science demonstrate this fit to major because it’s more important for them? It’s just like I just said earlier, gosh, if somebody goes through your process, or they go through my process, and they land on out, you know what mathematics or statistics might be a better fit for me. It’s going to be easier to get into those majors than it is going to really get into computer science or engineering. So to make sure that they’re demonstrating that they fit, what are some tips that you have? You’ve given some already, like, demonstrate your intellectual curiosity possibly do a research project or a passion project? Right? Those are two, what else could they be doing?

 

Jyoti Jain  20:17

Yeah, so basically, the admissions officers gonna look at what has the student done inside and outside the classroom, to show that fit to major. So what are the classes that they have taken? So in terms of, you know, engineering, computer science, they want to see that they’ve taken calculus, at least if it’s available, of course, it’s based on the high school context. So if it’s available in their high school, for sure, take it. And they also want to see physics that they’ve taken, you know, some kind of college level, they’ve shown that rigor in their curriculum. So that is important. The other thing is outside the classroom, what have they done to explore the major? So it could be, you know, have they attended a summer program, have they done some kind of, you know, coding programming course, have the, you know, looked at those interdisciplinary research projects, passion projects, what have you. And, you know, I would say, encouraging your students to start small, so just doing the programming first, you know, getting their feet wet, and then, you know, slowly going into larger and more complex projects, you know, that would be something to consider

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  21:38

what I like about what you just said, you know, when we say research project, we could have a listener, who has a rising senior getting ready to apply to, to CES or a related field this fall, and they might go, Oh, my goodness timed out for a major research project, but you gave some really practical ideas, and they’re of things that are not necessarily going to be time consuming. And they still would be readily available, you know, over the summer, or the fall of the student, the rising senior, summer and fall, right. So, you know, a coding class or a competition or a hackathon. Those are things that still would demonstrate. Absolutely, you can still fit in man, if you’re sitting because I know we’re gonna have some listeners that are starting to panic. Like, I had no idea was this competitive. I didn’t know we needed to be doing these things. So that’s kind of the low hanging fruit of those extracurricular activities, right? Yes,

 

Jyoti Jain  22:38

yes, absolutely. And then I would also say, in addition to, you know, looking at those things, they might also want to also show what kind of impact that they have in their community, because the admissions officers are looking for how the student is going to contribute when they get to campus. Absolutely.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  23:01

You know, one thing on the academic side of this is, if I go back to that episode 27, when we talked about engineering versus engineering technology. While I would agree with you that calculus, having taken calculus in high school, if it’s available on your campus, which it is for most, but not all, i You’re only held responsible for what’s offered at your high school is definitely needed. If you’re applying to computer science or engineering. However, engineering technology that more hands on is a little less competitive, and doesn’t require as high of a mathematics aptitude. They’re not going to have to do four semesters of calculus in college. And if you have a student who maybe finds Yeah, yeah, you know what the implement men are the hands on piece of this speaks to me, I like getting hands on. I’m the kid that if mom and dad comes home with a box from Ikea of a bookcase, oh, gosh, that makes everybody’s head spin IKEA in lack of instructions on putting something together. That’s the teenager who’s gonna like jump in and put it together and not need the crazy instructions that IKEA gives you that make no sense. And they successfully can do it. Like maybe that is your implementer who wants to be more hands on? And I would just say like, I’m always about creating hope, right? That’s a field where your kid doesn’t have to have strong calculus aptitude, right? I mean, they’re gonna have to take calc one and Calc Two, but they don’t have to be a BC calc student in high school.

 

Jyoti Jain  24:45

Yeah, the engineering technology curriculum has a hands on component to it. And also the math level is at a lower level than an engineering curriculum. So you They would have to do algebra trig level math, and also lower based physics. So that is absolutely yeah, you hit the nail on the head, there’s hope for everyone. And you know, there’s a right fit for every student.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  25:14

And it really is, it’s just about finding what fits. And that’s why, you know, a few years back, I doubled down on this college major and career peace because I thought the world sending messages to our teens and only served to overwhelm and with self awareness and investigation of careers, I see a path of hope to put every teen on a correct trajectory that fits for them, not what they think needs to be true. So as we’re wrapping it up, like you’ve given so much great information. Are there any other things that you think that students that you in your experience doing is applying to computer science and those related majors should be doing can be doing to help them stand out in the admissions process?

 

Jyoti Jain  26:01

Yeah, so I would go back to saying that, yeah, explore your major, early on in the process, do those interdisciplinary research projects, if possible, take a deeper dive into looking at not only just computer science, but also into related majors like data science, or bioinformatics, bioengineering biome biomedical engineering, there are so many different fields that you can look at even applied math, applied statistics. So investigate those interrelated majors. And some of them might be, you know, lesser, competitive and more, you know, your jam. So look at those things. And also, don’t forget to do those projects in your community to make a difference. So show that impact in your community, show that collaboration skills, which are very important, show those good character traits, like empathy, compassion. Also, don’t forget to show intellectual curiosity and problem solving skills. So all of that together, will make you a really, really strong applicant.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  27:24

Fantastic. Well, I know we have listeners who are like, okay, Daddy’s very good at this. And she knows what we need. And we want to get in touch with her. How can any listener get in touch with you who might want some extra support?

 

Jyoti Jain  27:40

I’m here to help. I’m here to support, you can go to my website, www dot Jain college consulting.com. And you can sign up there’s a form there, I provide 45 minute free consultations. So, you know, if you reach out to me, I can also share with you the links of all the things that we talked about today as well. And

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  28:08

I’ll put those in the show notes as well as your link to your website. And Jane is ja i n college consulting. Very good. Thank you.

 

Jyoti Jain  28:19

Thanks so much, Lisa.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  28:27

Thank you to Jyoti for sharing her expertise and strategies. As we wrap up, I encourage your family to have a conversation about where your teens true joy lies. Are they a math a file a discover an innovator or an implementer. Understanding their core interest in strengths is crucial in guiding them toward the right stem path. It might not be the most competitive major computer science. Your discussion can also aid your teen and helping them stand out in the competitive admissions process by choosing the right extracurriculars that align with their true wiring. If you found today’s episode helpful, please share it with a friend who might benefit from it. And don’t forget to rate and review the podcast to help us reach more families with valuable insights and support. Thank you for listening to College and Career Clarity, where we help your family move from overwhelmed or confused to motivate a clear and confident about your teens future. I’m Lisa Mark Robbins and until next time, keep striving for clarity and competence in your teens journey.