#150 Move Beyond Helicopter Parenting with Cheryl Pankhurst Transcript

THIS IS AN AUTOMATED TRANSCRIPT… PLEASE FORGIVE THE TYPOS & GRAMMAR! xo-Lisa.

Lisa Marker Robbins 00:43

are you feeling the tension between wanting to support your teen through life’s challenges without overstepping? It’s a delicate balance between helping them navigate obstacles and inadvertently becoming a helicopter parent. Many well intentioned parents worry that their teen’s future options might be limited or completely derailed if they are too hands off. I’m excited to have Cheryl Pankhurst join us to delve into this important topic. Cheryl founded teen minds redefine and has dedicated her life to understanding and supporting teenagers facing unique challenges. Her true calling is to uplift and empower every young person navigating the complexities of adolescents in our conversation, we’ll explore strategies that shift from fixing problems to coaching teens from behind. We’ll discuss how allowing your team to make their own choices and learn from failures can build resilience and prepare them for the future. If you’re anxious about missing deadlines, we’re worried that your involvement might limit your teen’s potential. This episode will provide the clarity and confidence you need to support them with developing crucial coping skills and self confidence for a successful transition into adulthood. I’m Lisa Marco Robbins, and I want to welcome you welcome you to College and Career Clarity a flourish coaching production. Let’s dive right in to a great conversation.

Lisa Marker Robbins 02:15

Cheryl, welcome to the show.

Cheryl Pankhurst 02:17

Thank you, Lisa. I am excited to be here.

Lisa Marker Robbins 02:21

I am too. We both have a heart for teens. For we both are teachers at heart. I mean, I love talking to other teachers, even though I’ve been out of the formal classroom for many, many years. You not as long, but you worked with those students who had special education IEPs, 504, as I would imagine, yes, your private work, you’re just supporting parents, period. Would that be right? That

Cheryl Pankhurst 02:50

is 100% right. So I spent many years as a special education specialist in high school, so working one on one with our kids who have very significant needs, and then, of course, supporting their parents, who, you know, felt a little bit lost and a little bit out of you know, not knowing what their advocate advocacy role is. So yes,

Lisa Marker Robbins 03:12

I love that, and so now, and as you and I both know, we are parents of adult kids, we’ve worked with teenagers forever. You’ve been in high school settings, kids that have an IEP or a 504 and kids who don’t hit bumps in the road have encounter difficulties. And so you’re really endeavoring to help anybody as a parent find a better way to get through that. And so tell me this, like when, when a parent that you’re working with, or you’ve seen this many times over the years, something happens with the teen, unexpected. What is the I would call it a stress response. Where do parents tend to go first when they encounter that,

Cheryl Pankhurst 04:03

well, I think the natural response is, dive in, fix it, protect them, get rid of the stress there’s there’s nothing harder as a parent to watch our kids struggle, period. So I think that is the natural response. Yeah,

Lisa Marker Robbins 04:20

we, I was talking to somebody. We had a recent episode on procrastination, and it really we, you know, we reframed it as parents will think, like, that’s laziness, and then they’ll jump on their kids and try to micromanage them and make them do the work. And we were talking about how, like, it’s just something is they’re shutting down because they’re overwhelmed. They’re looking for the place to feel safe, have some sense of control, and oftentimes that’s by doing nothing. And so I love how you kind of put that for a parent. Oftentimes it’s not necessarily shutting down. It’s probably going. The other direction, yeah, and trying to fix it, which doesn’t necessarily benefit students. So, what are like, What? What are the bad outcomes when we do that for our students? Like, what is what? When we think that we’re helping, I guess when helping hurt, how can helping hurt?

Cheryl Pankhurst 05:19

Well, I think if we, you know, don’t allow our kids that space and opportunity to navigate those stressors, not just on their own, but with the support from behind, as opposed to coming in and, you know, hovering over top of it and fixing it, we’re not allowing them to build those skills. And it’s not just a skill in the moment. Those are the skills they’re going to need forever knowing that, hey, I’ve got this, I can feel what it’s doing to me. I need to back up. I need to pause. I need to notice. I need to be curious about what it is that is actually happening here, and what am I learning from this? And it, you know what it can be anything. But what am I learning from this? So that when it comes, if it’s those small in what feels like an insignificant stressor, you’re you’re building those tiny building blocks of skills, so that when they get to the big stresses, they’ve got it. They they know, oh, I got through this so I can get through this, and I don’t need anybody to help me get through this. And it’s great as a parent to be there to support and coach them through it, but not take them by the hand and pull them through the mess and get them through it, so they miss all those valuable steps in between on how to do it themselves.

Lisa Marker Robbins 06:45

You know, when you just said, like these, they’re building blocks, right? So that when the big one comes, I’ve heard parents before, and even in my parenting journey, there have been times where it feels like but we jumped right into the big one it. We didn’t start with the little one. We didn’t start with like, not making the team, or, you know, friendship problems. We jumped into something big. Perhaps there’s a legal issue related to it. Perhaps there’s a school suspension. Perhaps it’s one that you feel like, oh my gosh, if my college bound kid might not even be able to go to college now. So what do you say to a parent who says, no, no, well this, we need to fix this, because there’s too much on the line. We jumped right into big so they have no skills to navigate it.

Cheryl Pankhurst 07:36

Well, I think the first thing to do is back up and say, Okay, let’s talk about any of the little things we’ve already gone through that maybe they didn’t notice. Well, remember when this happened? Remember when your friends bailed on you? Remember when you, you know, failed the math test? Remember when So, yeah, we got to that, and then we got past it, like celebrate, remind them of the wins before they got to the big thing. And then, you know, I think it’s really a position of curiosity, like, how can we look at this? How can we, you know, what were you thinking when this happened? And how can we break it down to what’s one small step we can take forward instead of looking at this big, huge, overwhelming, oh my god, mess we’re in. And I think by building the confidence of, Oh yeah, yeah, I did. And it goes for anybody, yeah, like even as parents, we completely screw up. But then we can go back and go, okay, but I did this okay, and I did this Okay, and I’m gonna do this okay as well. So it’s, I think that’s a really big point to go back and get some positive confidence before you attack the big thing.

Lisa Marker Robbins 08:44

You know, on your own podcast, which I’ve listened to, you, talk a lot about helicopter parenting that I think I heard you say just a few minutes ago. You know, we can start hovering and then right away, because I’ve listened to you the image of a helicopter came into my head. So good job, you have me thinking about it. So how would you define helicopter parenting? Because I’ve seen parents in my work go, Well, yeah, but that’s not me, so let’s kind of define helicopter parenting, because you teach a different way, yeah, well,

Cheryl Pankhurst 09:21

and it’s, you know, it actually was established as a term in the 60s where parents just kind of get over involved and over controlling and over monitoring, and they hover over every aspect of their kids like now we’re talking about teens. It’s a little different in elementary school, of course, but I think it’s, you know, really controlling who your child is going to be, what they’re going to do, what their successes are going to be. And if you stop and really think about it, is it because you are hoping for the best? For your child always good intentions, or are you really looking at what’s the reflection on me as a parent, and how was I parented? So all of these things come into play when we’re parenting, and so helicopters just literally hovering over your kid in every aspect of their life. Do

Lisa Marker Robbins 10:21

you ever, I haven’t heard you use this term, but do you ever use the term snowplow parent? Do you ever talk about that? Because I’ve, I’ve seen some parents who it’s not just trying to have influence and monitoring it. It’s like they are snow plowing through.

Cheryl Pankhurst 10:37

I never have but I think it’s very synonymous to helicopter parenting, where you are, like, literally controlling their future, controlling their friends, controlling what’s happening in school, a teacher, they have what, like all of it is very a pet peeve of mine, obviously.

Lisa Marker Robbins 10:54

So how has it become? It’s, I think it’s probably, I would say, more than a pet peeve of yours. So why is that? What have you seen happen as a result of helicopter parenting that’s made you so passionate to be anti helicopter? Well,

Cheryl Pankhurst 11:11

I think most of it is, you know, the outcome. So if we are going in and diving in and fixing the small things, oh, they forgot their lunch. Oh, they forgot their homework. I’m driving it to school, or they’re not going to be hungry, or, you know, all of these things by the time they get to in if this is grade nine or before, by the time they get to the later grades, by the time, you know, it’s really vital that they do something on their own. So they fail a test, and then they get to, you know, these helicopter parents will go in and say, Oh, let them Redo the test. Oh, they had a bad day, or they whatever. Then they get into college, and they fail the big test in college. They have no idea how to handle it. It is huge. It becomes a very serious mental health issue. I’ve seen kids spiral into very serious mental health conditions and situations because they have no idea how to handle even the slightest failure. Never mind what now they’re looking at as the biggest failure. They have a huge breakup. They have, you know, again, fail a test. They fail a course. Parents can’t dive in to college and university and and do any of this, so you’re cutting them off at the knees if they are being helicopter parented until the end of grade 12, and then off they go. And they don’t have any of these skills to rebound, to know, you know, to be curious about what happened, to be able to say, okay, you know, I can do this. I did that. So I can do this. I can dust myself off. I can call somebody who’s got my back, which be your parent, but not somebody who’s going to dive in and fix the mess.

Lisa Marker Robbins 13:01

I you know you you just touched on something there. And I find a lot of my listeners who have not had kids in college yet don’t realize, even if you’re paying the bill, you may not call and discuss your student with the Dean of Students, office, Student Affairs, the professors, you have zero rights, even if you’re paying to one of the most expensive colleges, $100,000 a year for room, board, tuition, all the things, you have zero rights unless your student waives those rights, which you know how I mean. What do you say about that? Like, the FERPA form allows a parent, if a kid signs off on it, a parent can contact and can get in to get information. Like, is that something that you advise families to do or to not do

Cheryl Pankhurst 13:55

the only time, the only caveat there for me is, if your student, your child, has very significant needs is going in with a diagnosis, and needs some advocacy there. However, you can hire advocates to do that for you and sign that off, but if we are really paying attention to what’s happening now, you need to sign those forms, right? You don’t need to. They’re good, they’ve got it. And, you know, I just find that that’s the only time I would say, if there’s, especially if there’s, you know, a mental health diagnosis where they really need a different voice, it doesn’t have to be yours, then yes, I think those forms are really important. But you’re right. You can be paying your $100,000 a year, and the Dean’s like, I don’t care. They’ll literally

Lisa Marker Robbins 14:42

say, I don’t, I can’t confirm that that student attends here, bye, bye, yeah. Not even, yeah, not even. They don’t have they’re not even going to probably respond to your email. So you brought something up about, you know, you can pay. There are plenty of programs and coaches. Is to work with students when they’re in high school, when they’re in college, and that could be the advocate and somebody to be checking in with them instead of it being mom and dad. It makes me think, like, what about parents? I mean, you coach parents on this stuff so and I know you talk about the coaching role versus the parenting role, and we’ve kind of hit on some of that. How do you coach the parents that you’re working with around these things, beyond, kind of the asking those questions about, well, you’ve had these tiny successes and things like that.

Cheryl Pankhurst 15:36

Well, I think you know, coaching is when we’re parent, I look at parenting as you’re taking on the typical parent role until they get to the teenage years, or even pre teen maybe. And then can you, you know, have a different thought about a different role in your kid’s life, where you now become more of a coach on your own, as opposed to the parent. Because I think just our mindset is, you do as I say, this is the way it goes. I pay the mortgage. This is these are the rules of the house, great. And if your kids scared of you and understands all those rules, great, you’re fine till they leave. But we’re not raising kids. We’re raising humans to go out into this world and be confident and authentic and and you know you be you is exactly how I like to look at it. And so can we turn our role around as parents into more of a coach? Can we coach them from behind? Can we Yep, you know what you you fell you need I’m right here, but the band aid. But keep going. Keep going. You got this? Yeah, you failed your test. But what happened there? Oh, well, maybe I didn’t study, maybe I didn’t understand and I didn’t want to ask for help. Okay, so what do we do next time that’s coaching? It’s not, I’m going to call the teacher. We’re going to get a redo like, you know, it’s kind of more of a coaching mentor role, where you still, I’m not saying give up any of the values that you have as a parent, but it’s just more, if you think about you are coaching them as a human to get out into this world and just have impact on themselves and other people. How would you coach? How would you parent in that role? And 90% of the time for parents who are coming to me with issues, I can almost always say, but it’s not them, sorry, but that’s where the magic happens when you start realizing where it’s actually coming from. You can control yourself, you can control your thoughts. You can shift your mindset. And I think that’s where, like I said, that’s where the magic happens for parents.

Lisa Marker Robbins 17:54

So really, when this, when they go into this stress behavior of helicopter parenting, you found that it’s really it’s not about the kid, it’s about you as a parent. It’s not them, it’s you. Yeah,

Cheryl Pankhurst 18:08

I want them to have what I didn’t have. I didn’t get the opportunity to do this and do that. Well, you know what? Go do it and let them be them. But you go do it, you can go back to school anytime you want. You can get on a hockey team. Listen, I was 40, and I decided I wanted to play hockey. It lasted about seven minutes, but I wanted my kids to play hockey. They didn’t play hockey. I thought, well, maybe I should just go play hockey, because that’s what I wanted. So it’s, you know, really being able to sit down and say, Is this really for them, or is this really

Lisa Marker Robbins 18:42

for me? You know, it that’s so interesting, because as I work with supporting career development and figuring out what comes after graduation, so that we can successfully launch these kids out of our homes. Because parents empty nesting is great, we can both tell you, right? Yes, don’t want them to be with you forever. So you really are work. That’s what we’re working towards. And so occasionally we will get somebody inside the course where it for the family. It’s interesting because the parents enroll the kids, we’re serving the outcome of the kid, but we’re truly serving the entire family, right? We’re we’re helping everybody launch this kiddo and the and we’re dialed down to the career piece. Occasionally I get that parent who’s just dead set on my kid must be a or they’ve thought since, you know, childhood, their child will be whatever, instead of going into it, you know, I coach them hold everything very loosely. I will literally put, you know, an object like i Nobody can see us right now, but I have an open hand with my pen in it, and we it’s okay to have some of those ideas and have conversations around them, but to hold our expectations loosely so that. Then the student can develop the self awareness, the career awareness, to make their own decisions. And I’ve seen terrible outcomes when the parents are in the driver’s seat of that journey. It’s

Cheryl Pankhurst 20:14

that’s exactly where I’m talking about. The mental health piece comes in. And first year of, I mean, I’m in Canada, so it’s college and university, but that first year when they’re on their own, I get, I can’t tell you how many calls I get saying they’re we’re in crisis. We’re in crisis. They they failed a course. They failed that we’re in crisis because they did not have the opportunity to, number one, build the skills, and number two, make their own choices.

Lisa Marker Robbins 20:43

I think to make their own choices from my because of the work that I do that is crucial to my work, and you’re on that side of, okay, let’s let them fail. Let’s let them, you know, be who they are, as far as figuring it out and navigating it, but it’s yeah, it’s a double edged sword, isn’t it?

Cheryl Pankhurst 21:05

Yeah? Well, you know, if you look at a lot of these growth mindset groups and people who are, you know, making changes in their lives, they’re all like 40 and 50 because they didn’t make their own choices, and they had no idea what it was like to make their own choices, and now they’re like, This is it. This is it now, I’ve gotta change everything. Well, why can we not try to foster those skills so they can cut out that whole middle section of their life that they weren’t happy with and just start living life authentically them and making their own choices and really celebrating like I used to say to my kids, just find something that makes you get up in the morning before the alarm. That’s all I want, because great way to now, you know, right? I never I, I set my alarm every morning for five o’clock to go to work, and I never hit my alarm. I always woke up at five two.

Lisa Marker Robbins 22:05

That’s amazing. You know, I think back to my own journey when I was in college and I had very supportive, loving parents, grew up in a great household, was not getting any guidance, really, on the career piece, and it’s probably this is probably part of why it’s so important to me, or it is. But when I was in college, I was vacillating between being an education major and being a business major, and I had switched a couple times, but like, at some point the river meets the road, you have to make a choice. You have to pick a lane right? And so as I was faced with that decision, I chose education as my major, not necessarily to please my parents, but my mom had been a stay at home mom, and I looked at that. It was literally a piece of paper that you had to fill out to select your final major, and I knew that well this would at least give me more time at home, was the initial filter. And I love working with teens, and so I go back to that point, and that was made to please somebody else, not me. Now, in the end, I’m in the business of helping educate and support teens and their parents, and it worked out, but I know I would have made a different choice had I not had those outside voices pushing me in a direction that was a great fit for my mom, but was not a great fit for me.

Cheryl Pankhurst 23:31

Yeah, and, you know, it’s funny because you say that, and I very much had helicopter parents, helicopter mom, and my choice at a high school was to become a hairdresser because my boyfriend was a hairdresser, so we owned salons. I was a hairdresser for years, until I realized, oh, maybe I’ll start teaching hairdressing, which led me down back to university at 35 with two kids. So it’s not linear, but had I really made my own choices, I would have picked that in a heartbeat. I wouldn’t have gone through all of you would have gotten there a lot sooner. I would have, I would have, which is fine, but, you know, and the one thing about, you know, even the helicopter parenting, and really, you know, I have to say this, because I think this is super important if you keep making these decisions for your kids, if you keep diving in and fixing everything, not only are you not giving them the skills they need, but I really believe it sends a message that you don’t have any faith in them, and you’ve got this kid looking at you like, Okay, you need to fix everything because you have no faith. And if your parents have no faith in you, who’s going to,

Lisa Marker Robbins 24:50

right? That’s a fantastic note to end on. Okay, Cheryl, thank you. If we have parents who want to, I mean, I how. Recommend that they listen to your podcast as well, so we’ll put a link to it in the show notes. But where are the best places for them to find you be in your world? Reach out if that’s where they’re filled.

Cheryl Pankhurst 25:11

Yeah, Team minds redefined is everywhere the podcast and then I met Cheryl pankers.com everything I offer is on my website, consulting, coaching, and I would just love to hear from you. I’m launching a divorce dinner party. Part of the parenting thing, of course, is divorce and co parenting. So I have a collaborator with me, and we’re doing a dinner party, divorce, he said, she said, which is really exciting to deal with everything, but, yeah, jump into my website, send me a message, connect with me through Facebook or Instagram, and I’m happy to help.

Lisa Marker Robbins 25:45

You’re a fantastic resource. Thank you, Cheryl, for making the time.

Cheryl Pankhurst 25:49

Thank you, Lisa. This was an absolute pleasure.

Lisa Marker Robbins 25:58

I hope this conversation with Cheryl has provided you with valuable strategies to support your teen without overstepping as you help them build resilience and confidence for a successful transition into adulthood. Remember shifting from fixing problems to coaching from behind can make an enormous difference in your teens journey towards independence as a practical next step. I invite you to download my free guide to sending student emails that get responses. I regularly hear of missed opportunities due to a lack of proper email etiquette and students wanting their parents to do it for them. You can get my guide at flourish coaching co.com forward, slash, email, and I’ll link to it in the show notes. You know, I’m on a mission to support more students in developing self awareness and connecting it to a successful launch after graduation. So if you want to support my mission, you can help me by rating and reviewing the podcast and just share an episode with friends. Thank you for listening to College and Career Clarity, where I help your family move from overwhelmed and confused to motivated, clear and confident about your teen’s future. You.