#157 Decoding GPA Confusion Before College Apps with Ann LaFemina Transcript

THIS IS AN AUTOMATED TRANSCRIPT… PLEASE FORGIVE THE TYPOS & GRAMMAR! xo-Lisa.

Lisa Marker Robbins 00:50

Are you feeling overwhelmed by the complexities of how grades and GPA impact your team’s college admissions prospects with different schools calculating GPA in various ways and colleges considering GPAs in context of each High School’s offerings, it’s no wonder many parents are unsure of the best way to support their teens academic journey. I’m excited to have Anne LaFemina Join us today to demystify this crucial aspect of college admissions. Anne is an experienced independent college counselor based in Florida with a passion for guiding students and families through the often confusing world of college planning. Her wealth of knowledge will help us understand the significance of grades and GPA in the admissions process and how to navigate the nuances of GPA calculations in our conversation, we’ll explore why grades consistently rank as the top factor in college admissions. Delve into the difference between weighted and unweighted GPAs, and examine how colleges view your teens academic performance in the context of their own high schools offerings. Additionally, we’ll discuss the importance of balancing academic rigor with personal well being, and strategizing course selections throughout high school. If you’re worried that misunderstandings about GPA could limit your teen’s future options, or you’re unsure about which classes they should schedule for next year, this episode will provide the clarity and confidence you need to support them effectively. I’m Lisa Marco Robbins, and I want to welcome you to College and Career Clarity a flourish coaching production. Let’s dive right in to a great conversation.

Lisa Marker Robbins 02:41

Well Anne, welcome to the show. So excited to have you here.

Ann LaFemina 02:46

So happy to be chatting with you today. Lisa, absolutely well, you are

Lisa Marker Robbins 02:51

a seasoned college counselor, and we are. We should say we are recording this for full transparency in November, but we’re going to be publishing it in January, where there’s so many fresh starts. And when we think of those fresh starts that come to mind, we think about New Year’s resolutions. We think about fresh slates on grades going into second semester. So if you’re a parent or a student or someone who works with teens is listening to us. You know, we’re all talking about like, hey last semester, if there were some bumps on the road, we’ve got a new start. And we’re choosing, usually in January, maybe February, choosing classes for the following school year. And so this is a great time to talk about grades, and not necessarily every teenager’s favorite topic.

Ann LaFemina 03:40

Yes, that’s true. So

Lisa Marker Robbins 03:43

let’s start with really the significance of GPA, of grades as it comes to this college bound process and admissions and the getting in piece, which is the ultimate goal. You know what? Why do you think that? Because some people are saying these days, well, grades don’t matter as much. You know, there’s debate about test scores and other things mattering. But you feel like grades are a critical importance here. And why is that?

Ann LaFemina 04:13

I do? I would agree with it, the premise that everything matters, when it says, you know, grades really don’t matter, or how much do they matter, and then also what we say and what we gear our students towards in college admissions now can change from year to year or a few years from now, but I always think that the grades are the most important in terms of when you are applying to a college or any program they’re always asking for, right? It’s never negotiable your high school transcript, and that is always I what I say is your first line of defense going through the admissions office is that this is what they’re going to look at initially and review initially, and then. What will they be adding to that review? So writing college admissions that can be essays and extracurriculars and other supporting factors, but not only just your grade point average, but your grades in the totality of how they’ve been and your course selection, I think grade point average in context is really what I try to focus in on, in talking and with my students and guiding families. You know,

Lisa Marker Robbins 05:31

I love how you teed that up. Like the one thing that every college is going to know about your teenager is their transcript. They’re going to know what classes they took and what their grades were, even though some of these other things people always sometimes people will be like, extracurriculars aren’t optional. I’m like, yeah, they are. I mean, there’s a place to list them, and I don’t know any teenager that doesn’t have some extracurriculars. But the reality is, even extracurriculars are optional. But this will be the one constant you know as you’re talking through that it makes me think of NAT CAC does that annual survey of admissions officers at the colleges asking like, what bears the most importance. And I look at it every year. I don’t know about you, but they put it in a grid, and the number one factor is always grades, and then grades as related to course rigor. And so I parents sometimes, if you know, if you’re a parent, you’re like, Okay, what is, what do you mean grades, and then grades related to course rigor. So you’re probably a good person to explain that, since you started us down that road,

Ann LaFemina 06:39

yeah, yeah. I think that’s a really important point and and I’m going to take it even further, so it is about your grade. So for example, a student may come to me and they may tell me that they have a 3.8 GPA, if we’re talking about GPA and grades, and they’ll say to me, my friend who goes to X, Y and Z High School, has a 5.3 and we’re both applying to the same school. How am I even going to get in with my 3.8 and she has a 5.2 that just seems impossible. I want to take it off my list. But actually, the truth of the matter is, is, again, GPA grades and context, that person with the 3.8 could actually find that they’re a minimal and I think when we talk about rigor, one of the things that I always advise students and families to do, and I call it the hidden gem in a high school website or page or finding it in your guidance office is the high school profile, right? So rigor to the high school that you attend, GPA to the high school that you attend. And then the next layer, Lisa becomes GPA, rigor, looking at that to the high school profile, and then how does the admissions of that school look at that in the context of their admissions review? So when you think about what I just said, I’ve laid on a lot of layers in the whole arena of all of that,

Lisa Marker Robbins 08:21

I so let’s back up, because you and I are so close to this topic. Yeah, as independent Educational Consultants, and you know my heart and actually grades actually relate to the heart of what I do is college major and career advisor to teens and young adults, grades really can matter, particularly on competitive programs. But let’s back up to this idea of school profile, because we, you and I loosely go, oh yeah. Well, the school profile this that define for our listeners what a school profile is. So

Ann LaFemina 08:56

the high school profile is a document that is put together for the benefit of not only just for you know, its participants within the school arena, but also mainly to be a document that’s submitted with an application behind the scenes to let a college admissions officer or committee understand what the high school programming looks like, so that has a unique arena, all in and of itself, that can be anywhere from does your high school offer the same coursework As other high schools? Do they offer as many honors or advanced placement courses? Do they work with colleges for dual enrollment or for other kinds of programming so the high school profile shares or serves to give context of what. Is available to a student within their time with at that high school. And it differs when you think about again, with the example that I said, with a student who has a 3.8 3.8 GPA, and someone who has a 5.2 why is that? Or when we think about someone who comes to applying to a school and they have number grades or they have pluses and minuses. So we always want to factor in when you use the word rigor, you want to always equate that to the high school that you are attending, because that in itself, becomes a variable within the admissions Arena in making those decisions. And so for if you have the opportunity to take more honors classes because your high school offers them, and I don’t, I am not penalized in that arena because I just didn’t have that opportunity. Didn’t mean I never wanted to, or that I wasn’t excelling in my rigor, but I could only excel in my rigor to what was being offered. So I think it’s important conversation to look at that and to have conversations, not only about where you fall within that to your high school, but if I was to give sort of, you know, some advice that I’d want your listeners to walk away with, is that going into ninth grade, we really should be looking at that. And if you want to ensure that you’re at the most rigorous stages, or what that is, look at what your high school offers to map out what that could be.

Lisa Marker Robbins 11:54

Yeah, I, you know, I have found over the years that, and I too, I say, like, look for the school profile and for that course selection guide, those are the two places. And what I found is that it is relatively easy on most high schools, whether it’s on the public facing page or where you log in as a family to find the course selection guide. So honestly, I even say that eighth grade families try to map out in pencil, of course, all the way up through senior year, what you think you might take and you’re going to learn stuff every year that’s going to help guide that. It could be, Oh, I thought I was going to do better in, you know, hard sciences, and maybe I want to bring that back. Or it could be the fact that you’re getting centered on a major of interest or career path, and so you want to take more math than was required, right? So course selection guides, I think, help with this, which are easy to find, but, and everybody knows those exist, but a lot of families, until we start working with them, usually their school counselor or college counselor that’s school based is not typically saying, well, here’s our school profile, and I’ve got mixed results. I’m trying to dig around and find school profiles on the school website. Do you have a trick to finding those school profiles?

Ann LaFemina 13:19

Yeah, no, I definitely do. And I think you’ve just sort of exposed one of them, that even if you don’t have that opportunity to find it, you always go and seek your, you know, go to your guidance office, or try to find somebody within that arena to help you get that answer. But when you said the course catalog, I agree, that’s the next Avenue where you can sort of get an idea of what that looks like, comparatively. So a lot of students, even when they get to the senior year, they don’t know if their high school ranks right. So meaning that, do they put do they determine a valedictorian number one of the class, a salutatorian, and number two in the class. Do they provide that on the application? And so some colleges will even ask, do you know your rank? Does your high school rank? And again, you’re not penalized for decisions that your high school makes, but it does give you the context or background of of what that looks like in terms of, you know, comparing your stats to someone else’s stats in that emissions arena, and it all becomes very relative. And the other question then becomes asking or seeking this knowledge out within your high school is finding out when you share my GPA or my career, whole grade point average at the time that I apply, is that a weighted is it factoring in the rigor? Meaning the additional weight of a course, and we can further talk about that,

Lisa Marker Robbins 15:05

because that’s how, yeah, I mean, that’s, I think that’s an important one, right? Yes, yeah. How that relates,

Ann LaFemina 15:11

sure. Or is it unweighted? So weighted would be those courses and would where you have taken an honors or an AP or a dual enrollment, and where your high school has given you another bump up in your overall number, weight of the GPA. So for example, what do I mean by that? So if you took an honors class and you earned an A, an A could be translated to a four if we were doing core recalculations. This is getting a little bit beyond I probably would want to share a great web page to look at recalculate my gpa.com which is a great one to sort of

Lisa Marker Robbins 16:00

put that, I mean, yeah, remember recalculating, but we will put it in the show notes for sure.

Ann LaFemina 16:05

Yeah. So just to sort of say, wait a minute, what was she saying? Where do we go for that? Um, could be a great idea, but what? What am I saying? Is that typically another added value of weight is added onto that, so that could be a point five, or a pre AP, course, could be an example where that would be a point five, and so that calculation bumps up your GPA in the overall, you know, ranking of What that looks like. So I think it’s always very interesting and well serving in all of this to know what this looks like. And I think it’s not even just about admissions, it’s really about so many variables. I just hosted a webinar on this topic, and where I talked about hidden in, and this is always a challenge, is trying to navigate a college web page. Sometimes it’s spelled out so beautifully, and sometimes you really have to go in the depths of finding this information, but where they would even say, we look for a certain GPA range for admissions into maybe a more competitive major, whatever that is. It could be, our engineering majors, sometimes nursing has a little bit of a higher GPA range. So all of these things knowing sort of this background can be very helpful in trying to plan where you want to go, for what you want to do.

Lisa Marker Robbins 17:47

I agree, and you know what I do? Think I have found over the years, it is hard to find it’s easy to find, like admission rates for the university. It’s fairly easy to find average most schools through the common data set, which then is going to flow through to websites and publications and whatnot, the average GPA or A, C, T and SAT scores of admitted students. It’s way harder to find it in the for the specific majors, right? But ask, I mean, be a wise consumer as you’re navigating this and send an email to somebody in the To your point, engineering tends to really put an emphasis on GPA nursing. Will I know you and I were just talking about the University of Cincinnati, because we both had kiddos that went there, even though we live in two states that are very far apart, but they have always, at least historically, I can’t say right now, had a rule that you can never have earned if you’re applying to nursing, you can never have earned a grade below a B for math and science. And actually, this goes to your point of rigor. Also, that’s really important to consider. Years ago, I had a student who had opted to challenge herself in AP Chem instead of honors Kim in her high school, and ended up one of the grading periods getting a C plus instead of a B, and we reached out to the Cincinnati nursing department. So this is ask the questions. You know, ask the questions of your high school. Ask for the course selection guide, ask for the school profile, ask the colleges the questions. But we got into a conversation with the nursing school, and we’re like, Well, hold on. I mean, she didn’t have to take AP Chem. She chose to take AP Kim. She would have gotten an A or a B, had she done honors or CP Kim, and you’re saying she’s out of contention because she took AP Chem and got a C, plus the one semester, and they just said. Yep. I mean, that was their rule. It was a hard and fast rule, and that relates to rigor decisions and how it affects GPA and all of that. So that’s a really important piece that you put there. And I and I think people need to be asking the questions.

Ann LaFemina 20:19

I agree, and I think another point that you’ve brought up is that I always try to share with students is that in your attempt for rigor, be true to yourself, right? So it you know, yes, colleges are seeking the rigor they are looking to. You know, how much are you challenging yourself? But challenge thyself is different for each person, and so I always start with embrace who you are, take it slow, especially when you start in ninth grade. It is great to maybe have an introductory course if you really feel very confident in how you navigate that you certainly can and should challenge yourself, but also understand that a challenge to me is a challenge is a different challenge to someone else, and so it doesn’t have to be across the board. If you have strengths, and just knowing that in that situation, you’re right, maybe in a conversation that chemistry, it was an important class to have for nursing, but the honors could have served her just as well to attend that university as the AP. So I think it’s always about weighing everything out. I always try to tell people, yes, you want to be mindful of the prize the admissions, but don’t reinvent yourself for college admissions. You know, embrace yourself and start there, and then let’s figure out where we go from there.

Lisa Marker Robbins 21:53

Well. And I, you know, my specialty is college major and career advising. And you just you spoke, I mean, you spoke my love language there. And, you know, it’s because we start with building self awareness, and we looked at through the lens of the Berkman assessment. We look at our hardwired personality, but then the other side of that, beyond our you know, are we an extrovert or an introvert? Are we emotional or practical? Are we thoughtful or quick to decide on things? You know that’s yes, there’s some hardwired DNA there, but you also have values, you have interests, you have aptitudes. And as this begins to come together, we’ve got to be very realistic about our academic aptitudes, and even the smartest kiddo. You know, taking all APS is a huge time commitment. On top of being colleges. Don’t want kids who are just have their nose down in a book. They want kids who are adding to their community and involved in extracurriculars. So that’s why I’m really passionate about building that career awareness alongside of that self awareness as early as like 10th grade. So that to your point, when they go to make decisions. I mean, if you think about it, a 10th grader in January is making the decisions about all the classes they’ll take the junior year, and whatever the classes are at the end of the junior year, and the grades are, that’s what we’re applying to college with. So after just three semesters of high school, we’re making big, long term decisions that have a long term impact. And so if we start to get some self awareness, be true to yourself. Is even though I maybe could handle the academic rigor of say, all of the classes, is it serving me well? Does it allow me to be balanced, like making those choices within context of that?

Ann LaFemina 23:50

Yeah, absolutely. It really does have to be about the balance. We do want to have students who are productive, who feel good about themselves, who are emotionally, you know, healthy with everything that they’re doing. And it is very important to factor that in. And so when someone presents a very arduous and rigorous schedule to male, say, and then you’re doing this, so are you sure that we want to do that? Or even just when we’re planning out summers. And, you know, listen, I work with so many wonderful students and families, very ambitious, and they want to do so much with their time, but time to regroup is good too, because you have to sort of have that energy and keep it up, you know, for all of that. Yeah, absolutely.

Lisa Marker Robbins 24:40

So what have you found on this, like weighted versus unweighted? I want to go back to this, because I’ve worked with kids who they all emotionally want to put their weighted GPA on their common app so they can, you know, they can choose. So the common app will say. A Is this your weighted or your unweighted? And what’s your GPA? What scale is that based on? Most of the time, it’s a four point scale. But there are other scales out there. And to your point, you said, Ask in advance, your high school was going to be on the transcript. So is it weight weighted, unweighted, or both? Do you find that most high schools on the transcript are putting weighted or unweighted.

Ann LaFemina 25:25

I’m finding that they’re putting both. I’m seeing actually both that they’re adding now, because it a lot of colleges are even asking that, or even on some of the self reporting academic records, which that’s a whole nother conversation, but more. I will just to add context to that, more and more colleges are asking applicants to actually take their transcript and record it on a separate document so that it’s, you know, easy to read for the colleges and breaks down. You know, the classes for them to sort of translate themselves. So we are having to sometimes look at both arenas. But what I do then say, once we get past that conversation is twofold. One, I always say, it’s very well known, but you don’t know this, that once your high school transcript is evaluated, they’re going to extract core classes, typically, and so beyond that, do you look at weighted or unweighted? It’s then, how do you do that? Is the second follow up question, and then it becomes Okay. Typically, the response is that they were looking at your core classes, and then they can be then putting that to the best they can on an even playing field, right to evaluate, to make this sort of interesting, coming from different high schools and having different A’s or B minus or 80 or whatever that is. Some are quarter grade. Some do semesters. So it’s all different. There’s no you know, the colleges have seen it all, and so how do they extract your transcript to make it on that even playing field? And that’s a lot of what’s happening behind the scenes, I will say that. Then sometimes I’ll say, you know, they can decide if it’s an unweighted then we have that way to sort of look at what that looks like. If you ask me to help you translate your your transcript in sort of the method that the college will. But at the same time we you know, we never really know exactly so it is always as everything with college admissions, it’s unique and specific to the student and the colleges to which they are applying to. Well, that process

Lisa Marker Robbins 27:57

that you just described about, there are more and more schools moving to what is the cell free? Is S, R, A, R is the acronym, right? So for our listeners who don’t know, and honestly, most of them never even know what that is, until that senior year, October, November, and they’re having to arduously sit down with their transcript and reproduce the entire transcript, which just seems like such a painful process, I know it is, but that those core courses, let’s go back to that idea. So because I think some of our listeners might not know what that is,

Ann LaFemina 28:36

yes, exactly yes. So that is going to be math, science, social science, English, foreign language. Think I’ve hit those five core course areas. So, and it’s interesting, because a lot of students, let’s say that you go to a private school where you have, you know, you take your you’re required to take religion classes. Now, some of them can be coded for social sciences. Sometimes colleges won’t factor that in, and so students are often surprised of what their GPA looks like once it’s extracted by the colleges based on those core classes, and so also, as a follow up to that in course selection is kind of what we were going to in the second semester. I always suggest that when looking at electives, if you are also trying to be a little bit more competitive, or to assist your GPA to keep it on the rise, or keep it competitive, to take your electives within core classes, because you know that they are safe within the recalculation now, of course, that does have to follow into is this the right fit for you? And so on and so. Forth, as we just discussed earlier, but so much to think about in the planning and navigating it all it is down to these little details, but I always think it just kind of going to the root of all of this. You know, knowledge is power, and so I really do encourage, you know, when you think you’re college bound or even post secondary, anything bound, what, whatever that is, it is really important. And yet, you’re a ninth grader, and it’s so hard to focus on four years from then, or three and a half, as you said, when you’re getting ready to apply. But the more you can sort of learn as you go along, the better it is for you when you get to this point. It just helps with with you, trying to figure out where you’re should be applying what your career assessments look like. All of these things become really helpful tools in those clarifying moments, and you’re so young, and it’s so hard, it’s so easy for me to say all these things, but I think it’s a good sort of foundation to start high school with, at the very least, just to be thinking, to be asking, well, just to have

Lisa Marker Robbins 31:17

to be clarification, right? Yeah, exactly. I mean, my listeners know and those families that are inside my launch Career Clarity, course, know that I say maybe freshman year, only one weekend a month, but to have what I call a college bound conversation, so to sit down, as a family say, for a minimum of 2030 minutes, we’re just going to sit down and we’re going to talk about something. So really, based on what we’re saying today, like it could be, let’s talk about, well, what might you take next year? But by the time they’re a second semester sophomore, I really believe there is enough to do, and there’s enough we should be talking about as families, because this is a big investment they’re getting ready to make, that you’ve got something to do every single weekend. So by second semester, sophomore year, and for some of our listeners, this might be when they’re listening to this episode drop this is you start carving out, you know, 30 minutes every weekend. It could be spent on figuring out when you’re going to take the A, C, T, or the s, a T. It could be for the families that are in my course, you know it is okay. We’re gonna spend time working on the lessons and doing getting things that can give us career in college. Major clarity for this topic that we’re talking about, look at the course selection guide one weekend another weekend. Just look at your school profile or ask for it if it’s not readily available, right? So there’s always something to do, and I think you’re right. We don’t want to rush them, but there’s very real deadlines coming, and when we pause and take the time, we’re going to be making better informed decisions. So yeah, absolutely. Well, and if you’ve inspired anybody to want to learn more about working with you, which I’m sure you have. How would they get in touch?

Ann LaFemina 33:05

So I am part of a fabulous team at jra educational consulting, and they can reach out to me through their website. They can email me at an A, N, N, at J R, A, E, c.com, so I’m happy to answer any follow up questions from this podcast as well. So

Lisa Marker Robbins 33:27

okay, well, it’s been wonderful. Definitely need to have you back and thanks for being here. Yes,

Ann LaFemina 33:32

such a great conversation. Thank you so much, Lisa.

Lisa Marker Robbins 33:41

I hope this conversation with Ann has shed light on the crucial role of grades and GPA in college admissions. Understanding how GPA is calculated and how colleges interpret your teen’s academic performance can make a significant difference in planning for their future. As a practical next step, I encourage you to contact your teen school counselor and request a copy of the high school profile. This document provides valuable context about course offerings, grading scales and class rank policies, all of which colleges consider when reviewing applications. This information will empower you and your teen to make informed decisions about course selections and academic goals. If you found this episode helpful and are wanting more support for your team, join me and launch Career Clarity, where we help your team make informed decisions on their future major and career Learn more at flourish coaching, co.com forward slash video, thank you for listening to the College and Career Clarity podcast, where I help your family move from overwhelmed and confused to motivated clear and confident about your teen’s future. You.